A special math from president Trump

Beja

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No politics..
He said the reason we are seeing a lot of coronavirus infections is that because we are testing.. If we don't test we can't see any increase in the infections.
This reminds me with a joke from Germany: The cause of poverty is the lack of money!😁

Case closed.. Guys you must always keep a lot of money to avoid poverty.. Poverty no good
 

emexes

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I know it sounds funny but Trump is correct: the increased testing is picking up existing asymptomatic cases that would otherwise have recovered naturally and never been included in the counts. It increases the counts and that makes people think things are getting worse, whereas in fact things simply are what they would have been anyway, except that we didn't know about it. ✌

But it is good that we find these already-existing-but-unknown cases, because then those infection chains can be stopped. People who don't know they have coronavirus, don't know to take extra precaution to isolate from others to avoid passing it on, whilst they have the virus and before their immune system has rendered it noncommunicable. Now they do. 👍
 
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Diceman

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The fake news must continue to spread the virus fear so the public will be more willing to accept forced vaccinations when the vaccine comes out. The largest advertiser for evening news is you guessed it, drug companies which is a conflict of interest. A worldwide forced vaccination program will make a few trillion dollars for the vaccine manufacturers and they don't want the public to know there are cheap alternatives available.

If the public took vitamins (A,B,C,D3,Zinc) to boost their immune system they would be less likely to catch the virus in the first place. If they did catch the virus then the drugs Hydroxychloroquine and Zinc work quite well as well as Ivermectin if administered early enough. They require no hospital stay and costs just a few dollars because they are both off patent. But the news media will never tell you that because they have their own agenda.

Did you know that in Canada, U.S., and Italy over 80% of the deaths occurred in retirement homes? The average age of people who died from the virus was over 80 years old. Was it really necessary to shut down the country and destroy the economy? Why not just isolate senior citizens over the age of 70 or people that had problems with their immune system? And why did California, New York and New Jersey send thousands of conoravirus patients to senior homes? This was sheer stupidity because it ended up dramatically increasing the death rate, or is that what they wanted? If I lost someone in a nursing home that housed coronavirus patients I would be suing the politicians for negligence that sent them there. Gov. Cuomo sent 6,300 COVID-19 patients to nursing homes during pandemic

The curve has been flattened but the 2nd wave is coming and I expect another lock down is just around the corner. Hang on because it will be a bumpy ride.
 

canalrun

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I know political discussions are frowned upon in the forms, but maybe we should consider this a World Awareness thread.

I am grappling with why everybody is so adamant about wearing a mask. For me it's pretty obvious – I've seen the size of the virus reported to be about 80 nm and the thread mesh on a very good mask to be 300 nm. It seems the virus would just fly right through like a mosquito against a chain-link fence. People say: "but the virus attaches itself to respiratory droplets and those are large enough to be captured by the mask". Why aren't the virus particles ejected from the droplet when the it hits mask barrier? What am I missing?

I'm lucky enough to be governed by Emperor Cuomo :confused:. I think it's all about control. Cuomo decides who works who doesn't, who can leave the house who can't, who can go to school. The government is trending toward socialism by replacing the salaries of the most financially vulnerable people with a monthly handout and setting up lines where people can wait hours for a free gallon of milk.

Why are new infections any different than getting the vaccine? A vaccine causes a person's immune system to build antibodies. Isn't this what happens when you get infected?

I am interested to hear how people from other parts of the world feel.

Barry.
 
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JohnC

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What am I missing?

One way it was explained to me is that the mask helps more to prevent "Transmission" than reception of the virus. It is well proven that most people who have the virus don't have symptoms, so they don't know they have it, but yet they are VERY contagious. So, if a mask will filter 80% of the moisture coming out of an infected persons mouth, that's 80% lower chance of giving it to someone else. That's why people get ticked off when other people don't wear masks because anyone not wearing a mask could be unintentionally spreading the virus with every exhale. So, if everyone wears a mask, then the virus will have to travel through TWO masks to infect someone else, significantly lowering the chances.

Another not commonly talked about benefit of wearing a mask is that it prevents you from accidently touching your mouth or nose when you have a mask on. Like they say - wash your hands often. Why? Because if you touch an infected surface, then touch your mouth or nose you can get infected.

Why are new infections any different than getting the vaccine? A vaccine causes a person's immune system to build antibodies. Isn't this what happens when you get infected?

From what I understand, one of the many things the virus does (when it turns bad in a person) is that it triggers your immune system. This is normally is a good thing. But this virus triggers the immune system with no specific (or known) target for it to attack, so the immune system goes into overdrive, often causing BLOOD CLOTS in ALL of your major organs, damaging them and then potential organ failure.

And from what I understand, a vaccine gives the immune system a very specific target to attack, so it wont go crazy and overwhelm your body.
 
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Diceman

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Those were all very good questions and JohnC did a good job in answering them. Not much left for me to do here. ;)

I'm lucky enough to be governed by Emperor Cuomo :confused:. I think it's all about control. Cuomo decides who works who doesn't, who can leave the house who can't, who can go to school. The government is trending toward socialism by replacing the salaries of the most financially vulnerable people with a monthly handout and setting up lines where people can wait hours for a free gallon of milk.

Why are new infections any different than getting the vaccine? A vaccine causes a person's immune system to build antibodies. Isn't this what happens when you get infected?

I am interested to hear how people from other parts of the world feel.

Barry.

COVID-19 is another SARS virus and is called SARS-2 by some scientists. You may remember the SARS-1 outbreak that we had in 2003 that also originated in China and spread to Toronto Canada by air travel because it had a large Chinese population. That virus was easy to isolate because the people exhibited symptoms much quicker than SARS-2 and they were put into isolation earlier which limited the spread of the virus. They tried to develop a vaccine for SARS-1 but ended up killing more people than it helped. As JohnC mentioned, the vaccine which has virus like particles in it to induce the body to create anti-bodies. The virus lodges in the lungs and the body will deliberately develop pneumonia to try and dislodge the virus from the lung tissues. Pneumonia can of course can kill the patient. A vaccine that kills the patient is bad for business.

It has been shown that when someone catches SARS-2 the body builds up anti-bodies to fight it. This is to be expected. But what isn't expected is the anti-bodies reach their peak in 3 weeks and by then the virus is usually gone from a patient that has a strong immune system. But the anti-bodies will gradually disappear after 3 weeks and the person can catch the virus again in 2 or 3 months. This means there is no herd immunity for SARS-2. It also means a vaccine won't work unless the person is immunized every month. Since vaccines are tailor made for the vaccine and the SARS-2 virus is mutating at a very rapid rate, a new vaccine will have to be developed every couple of months for it to work effectively against the mutated virus. I really don't see how a vaccine will be of much use in combating COVID-19.

Don't forget that a vaccine is not a cure if you already have the virus; it won't do a thing. People are going to have to rely on the vitamins that I had mentioned earlier as a preventative measure and the drugs as a cure. Yes, these drugs will remove all traces of COVID-19 from the body in as little as 6 days if administered properly. If the person is exhibiting symptoms of the virus he should consult with his doctor and hopefully he will recommend these over the counter drugs I mentioned. The hydroxychloroquine has been around for 70 years and is relatively safe if used in the recommended dosages. If the person waits too long and requires hospitalization, the hospital may recommend using a ventilator. This could be a death sentence because statistics have shown COVID-19 patients who have been put on a ventilator have a 50% death rate. It would be more beneficial if the patient was started on a high dose vitamin-C IV of around 50 to 100 grams per day (adult dosage). This has been shown to be very effective against COVID-19 and many other nasty viruses such as polio. These treatments I mentioned are not usually utilized by hospitals because they are off patent and are very inexpensive, yet have virtually no side affects.

And if you happen to pass your emperor on the street some day, make sure you kick him between the uprights. Tell him its from the citizens of NYC and if he doesn't smarten up, there's more where that came from. 🤩
 

Beja

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Why aren't the virus particles ejected from the droplet when the it hits mask barrier? What am I missing?

Unlike bacteria, a virus is not a living organism.. it can't move or reproduce by itself..
 

Beja

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The average age of people who died from the virus was over 80 years old. Was it really necessary to shut down the country and destroy the economy? Why not just isolate senior citizens over the age of 70 or people that had problems with their immune system?

Very scary talk.. that reminds me with somebody!

BTW: The fake news is now coming from hospitals and the science community, including those in the white house.. Cheers!
 

Jorge M A

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Did you know that in Canada, U.S., and Italy over 80% of the deaths occurred in retirement homes? The average age of people who died from the virus was over 80 years old. Was it really necessary to shut down the country and destroy the economy? Why not just isolate senior citizens over the age of 70 or people that had problems with their immune system?
Well, there's just one thing to remember. We're dealing with a disease that was unknown. I'm not sure if it happened in China in the same way, but what is a fact is that these data have only become available and known over the almost 8 months of experiences since the virus was announced.

On the other hand, I would like to know more information about Ivermectin. In which countries have they used it? What are their results? What are the testimonies of people who have taken it when they were sick? Are there any sources about this? Thank you very much!
 

Diceman

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Very scary talk.. that reminds me with somebody!

BTW: The fake news is now coming from hospitals and the science community, including those in the white house.. Cheers!

Almost every country mishandled the virus badly. Some leaders handled it so poorly I suspect it may have been deliberate to make the crisis more serious than it had to be. One motivating factor is that there are tens of billions of dollars to be made from a crisis and greed is a mitigating factor in the high number of deaths in some western countries.

If I were a leader of a country I would have followed the protocol of the country with the least number of deaths at that time, namely Taiwan who started massive testing campaign right away (100k per day and ramping up to 1 million per day) and isolating the sick and only the sick. They kept their country open and functioning. So far they have had 452 confirmed cases with 6 deaths due to COVID-19. But the western press cannot mention the success of Taiwan without facing the Wrath of Kahn, sorry, China.

I really have to question the sanity of the state governors who sent thousands of COVID-19 patients to retirement homes. The elderly were the most vulnerable people because of their age and weakened immune system. I also question their motive for releasing thousands of dangerous criminals from prison. They had the drugs to combat the infected prisoners, and if masks work as well as they keep telling us, just let the prisoners and guards use masks and everything will be fine. I certainly would not release prisoners into the streets so they can join in on the riots and looting.

I also question the reasoning behind quarantining the entire country, including the healthy people. It was almost as if they wanted to destroy the economy. In Canada I don't believe anyone under the age of 30 had died from the virus. There were a few people under the age of 50 who died but they had existing conditions (weakened immune systems). 82% of the people who died were in senior residents and the major cause was the staff who brought it into the residence. These were the most vulnerable and needed the strictest of quarantine. Not the general population. Bring in the military to care for the elderly because they have been trained in this type of crisis.

Most people don't realize the problems we will incur by shutting down the economy. 30% of small businesses that were forced to shut down, will never open again. They have given up or have gone bankrupt. These are taxes that the cities will never see again and this will degrade the city's infrastructure. If you thought Flint Michigan was bad, it's coming to a town near you. It is my estimation that close to 95% of the bailouts went to major corporations. The guys scraping by on Main Street got the crumbs that were swept off the table. There will be a massive number of bankruptcies this year in every sector of the economy and this means many of the bank loans will go bad. The banks will need to be bailed out that will dwarf the 2008 bailout because this time around it will include all of the regional banks, not just Wall Street.

Massive layoffs are coming from store closures. The end result of all this is a major portion of the general public will be going on UBI (Universal Basic Income). This will help for the first year, but the massive spending by the government to bail out every corporation will be in the trillions of dollars, perhaps tens of trillions of dollars by the time they get through in a few years. This will cause very high inflation that will destroy the purchasing value of the dollar. The people on UBI will see those checks buy less and less until they are living below the poverty line.

If we get more shutdowns this year because of wave 2 & 3 and it extends past October, then it can take years to get the economy going again. We could be witnessing a scorched earth policy when it comes to employment and small businesses. If you want to destroy an economy, simply tell everyone to stay home.

Sorry for being so long. But I had to get it off my chest. I hope I'm wrong, and if there are no more lock downs then we will have a chance of a quick recovery next year.
 

keirS

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I know political discussions are frowned upon in the forms, but maybe we should consider this a World Awareness thread.

I am grappling with why everybody is so adamant about wearing a mask. For me it's pretty obvious – I've seen the size of the virus reported to be about 80 nm and the thread mesh on a very good mask to be 300 nm. It seems the virus would just fly right through like a mosquito against a chain-link fence. People say: "but the virus attaches itself to respiratory droplets and those are large enough to be captured by the mask". Why aren't the virus particles ejected from the droplet when the it hits mask barrier? What am I missing?

Your missing an understanding of the physics of the movement of particles in the air. Particles do not move in a straight line. They are subject to brownian motion (random movement). A mask does not act like a fishing net for such small particles. The particles are not stopped on the surface of the mask. Instead the random motion of the particles means they are more likely to collide with and be trapped in the strands of the fabric layers (A process called diffusion)

The cheap surgical masks being worn by many offer some level of protection. A minimum of 3 layers of fabric is recommended. The N95 and N99 (FFP2 and FFP3 in Europe) masks stop 94% (FFP2) and 99% (FFP3) of particles of less than 0.6 micrometers in size.

I
 

Beja

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Some leaders handled it so poorly

Yep! we have got one.

Quote: " But the western press cannot mention the success of Taiwan without facing the Wrath of Kahn, sorry, China. "
Chine did better than Taiwan.. take these number and do the arithmetic:
Taiwan population = 25,000,000
infected = 450

China population = 1,400,000,000
infected = 83,612

It's the ratio that counts not the numbers.
 

Diceman

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Well, there's just one thing to remember. We're dealing with a disease that was unknown. I'm not sure if it happened in China in the same way, but what is a fact is that these data have only become available and known over the almost 8 months of experiences since the virus was announced.

On the other hand, I would like to know more information about Ivermectin. In which countries have they used it? What are their results? What are the testimonies of people who have taken it when they were sick? Are there any sources about this? Thank you very much!

There are over 30 clinical trials of Ivermectin underway. It is an anti-parasite drug that has been approved by the FDA for intestinal infections, lice, scabies, and river blindness since the 1980's. Here are some of the results.

The FDA-approved drug ivermectin inhibits the replication of SARS-CoV-2 in vitro
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0166354220302011

U.S.-based clinical trial shows mortality rate for COVID-19 patients fell 40% with Ivermectin.
https://ecambiomed.com/medrxiv-icon...tality-in-hospitalized-patients-with-covid19/

Ivermectin Study Reveals Fantastic Results: 100% of 60 Patients Better in an Average of Just Under 6 Days
https://www.trialsitenews.com/iverm...ts-better-in-an-average-of-just-under-6-days/
 

Diceman

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Yep! we have got one.

Quote: " But the western press cannot mention the success of Taiwan without facing the Wrath of Kahn, sorry, China. "
Chine did better than Taiwan.. take these number and do the arithmetic:
Taiwan population = 25,000,000
infected = 450

China population = 1,400,000,000
infected = 83,612

It's the ratio that counts not the numbers.

Do you trust China to provide us with the correct numbers? They have been lying to the world about the virus from the very beginning. Why would they start telling the truth now?

Healthcare workers in China claim the number of deaths are in the millions. Incinerators in the major cities have been running 24/7 and these facilities have multiple furnaces. All I can tell you is I don't trust the numbers coming out of China.
 

canalrun

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The N95 and N99 (FFP2 and FFP3 in Europe) masks stop 94% (FFP2) and 99% (FFP3) of particles of less than 0.6 micrometers in size.

Thanks but 0.6 µm is 600 nm. I have seen descriptions that the diameter of the coronavirus is about 80 nm. How do these masks perform with an 80 nm particle?
 

Duncan williamson

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I know political discussions are frowned upon in the forms, but maybe we should consider this a World Awareness thread.

I am grappling with why everybody is so adamant about wearing a mask. For me it's pretty obvious – I've seen the size of the virus reported to be about 80 nm and the thread mesh on a very good mask to be 300 nm. It seems the virus would just fly right through like a mosquito against a chain-link fence. People say: "but the virus attaches itself to respiratory droplets and those are large enough to be captured by the mask". Why aren't the virus particles ejected from the droplet when the it hits mask barrier? What am I missing?

I'm lucky enough to be governed by Emperor Cuomo :confused:. I think it's all about control. Cuomo decides who works who doesn't, who can leave the house who can't, who can go to school. The government is trending toward socialism by replacing the salaries of the most financially vulnerable people with a monthly handout and setting up lines where people can wait hours for a free gallon of milk.

Why are new infections any different than getting the vaccine? A vaccine causes a person's immune system to build antibodies. Isn't this what happens when you get infected?

I am interested to hear how people from other parts of the world feel.

Barry.
the virus does not travel through the air by itself.... it is in droplets of fluid which are far bigger than the virus itself.. the mask is to trap the aerosol droplets and by default the virus in the droplets... once removed from the droplets the virus dies quickly.. like a fish out of water.. also droplets have surface tension and given the mass of the virus its unlikely they would escape the droplet , once the droplet is inhaled then the surfactant in the lungs breaks down the surface tension allowing the virus to move.... what seems to be neglected is the fact that the mask is to prevent the spread from the mask wearer predominantly... basically you wear the mask to prevent you infecting others.. given the damage that is done to the bodies organs by the virus I would prefer the vaccine.. look back at smallpox and the effect it had until it was eradicated in the wild by a vaccine...
I live in a country that shut down completely and eradicated community transmission... our social activities are back to pre covid ...but then we didnt have half the population screaming about their rights being impinged or a govt that ignored scientific facts and advice
 

Diceman

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Thanks but 0.6 µm is 600 nm. I have seen descriptions that the diameter of the coronavirus is about 80 nm. How do these masks perform with an 80 nm particle?

When it comes to masks there is something everyone is overlooking. A person can contract the virus through their nose and mouth, through cracks in their skin, and through their eyes and ears. Let's say the masks are 100% effective (which they're not), how do you prevent the virus from landing in your eyes or ears? Are you going to wear swim goggles and ear plugs along with a mask in public?

The authorities are not telling people that the COVID-19 virus is airborne (aerosol transmission) and can stay suspended in the air for several minutes. The virus has been found in the filters of air vents so it can spread through the ventilation system. Remember the Diamond Princess cruise ship that was docked in Japan in February? A passenger reported the crew was taping up the air intake vents in the hallway outside his cabin. That's when it dawned on me it could be airborne. A day or two later they started evacuating a large number of passengers from the ship because they had no way to control the spread of the virus. No matter what they did, more and more people became infected and that was because it was airborne and moving through the ventilation system. They had to get the people off the ship as quickly as possible.

So even with the perfect mask on, if the virus is in the air because someone had been coughing or sneezing minutes earlier even in an adjoining room, you can still catch it if it makes contact with your eyes or ears (the wax in your ears offer some protection).

Side note: Virus can also be transmitted through feces and urine; someone in Japan contracted it from a neighbor several floors above them because their plumbing pipe leaked. So don't let your dog drink from the toilet then lick people. Yech! The virus has been found in wastewater treatment plants and authorities are testing these wastewater plants to see if the spread of the virus is getting worse in the population. Nasty stuff.

Here is my perfect COVID-19 mask I'll be modeling this year. It comes with a free update
PerfectAntivirusMask.jpg
 

keirS

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Thanks but 0.6 µm is 600 nm. I have seen descriptions that the diameter of the coronavirus is about 80 nm. How do these masks perform with an 80 nm particle?

As stated : The N95 and N99 (FFP2 and FFP3 in Europe) masks stop 94% (FFP2) and 99% (FFP3) of particles of less than 0.6 micrometers in size. So the masks stop 94% and 99% respectively. of particles of 80 nm in size.
 
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