Help, Library, classe and snippets with Donate?

Discussion in 'Forum Discussion' started by Filippo, Jun 17, 2015.

  1. Filippo

    Filippo Expert Licensed User

    Hey Guys,

    Lately, I read again and again posts with Donate. It looks like a B4x-market and no longer as a B4x-forum.

    Luckily there are still enough people who your help, library, class and give snippets for free.
    I think this is a forum where people help when you feel like it and when you want or can.
    I demand for my work (I know I do not have many) and my help nothing, a thank you is enough, but it need not be.

    In this forum there are people who for years help without asking for anything.

    But of course, everyone can do what it wants.

    Is just my opinion.

    Now please do not beat.:(
  2. Erel

    Erel Administrator Staff Member Licensed User

    Don't forget the upside of this. The upside is that many new nice libraries are now available.
    Peter Simpson likes this.
  3. Filippo

    Filippo Expert Licensed User

    I know, but I do not forget agraham he has made as much for B4x and has never asked for anything in return.

    But of course, everyone can do what it wants.
  4. Erel

    Erel Administrator Staff Member Licensed User

    That is correct. However most or all of the library developers who publish "chargeable" libraries are also very active and helpful.
    Peter Simpson likes this.
  5. LucaMs

    LucaMs Expert Licensed User

    Personally, I removed the button for the donation.

    In fact, if I publish something really useful, I will ask direct bank transfers with many zeros :p
    lemonisdead and Filippo like this.
  6. thedesolatesoul

    thedesolatesoul Expert Licensed User

    I think your opinion is based on your experience.
    I get a lot of PMs, many people ask to wrap a library or help to wrap one.
    I also get a lot of questions regarding my libraries when the question is answered or easily debuggable but people do not make the effort to find/post logs or fix things themselves.
    For this reason, it is necessary to put a small barrier as a deterrent so people can do their homework before they contact my with a silly question like "I woke up and it didnt work".
    I dont have enough free time to help everyone, only people who are serious about a venture, i'd spend a week doing research on wrapping a library just to find out the user wasnt serious about it.
    Its demotivating, and i need a counter balance to keep my interest in the game.
    Currently none of my libraries FORCE a donation, they all have free downloadable links. (because that makes me feel too accountable).
    I think you will only realize this when you spend too much time doing support.

    agraham did have a donate button on his sig near the end, but i dont think it meant much to him.
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2015
    Peter Simpson and NJDude like this.
  7. LucaMs

    LucaMs Expert Licensed User

    Write sw mean time, as well as knowledge.

    I think that asking for a donation "mandatory" minimum is not nice, but I also think that if a person can have something free rarely will pay for it.

    So, I agree with those who ask for a donation, albeit minimal.
  8. NJDude

    NJDude Expert Licensed User

    Why is not nice?, most users here have no idea how difficult some libraries are, how much time and effort is needed to release a library that will make your life easier, and, if the author asks in return a minimum amount for his efforts, what's the problem?, and on that issue, what's also frustrating, is that users nag and nag for a library, then, someone writes it and the complaints start because is not done "the way they wanted" once again, that's because they have no clue what's under the hood and what's possible or not.
  9. LucaMs

    LucaMs Expert Licensed User

    It depends on the sw published, however: some libraries are more complex than others; as well as some wrapping are more complicated than others.

    I concluded by saying:
    "So, I agree with those who ask for a donation, albeit minimal."

    Rather than donation, I would speak of price.

    Let me clarify: it is not nice to take advantage of those who work for others without ever making a donation, then ...

    "I agree with those who ask for a 'donation', albeit minimal."
    RandomCoder and thedesolatesoul like this.
  10. Peter Simpson

    Peter Simpson Expert Licensed User

    Filippo I really can't see what the problem is. Library developers work really really really hard wrapping libraries for us mere mortals to use, mostly for free. @thedesolatesoul, @DonManfred, @NJDude, @warwound, @corwin42, @agraham, @derez, @XverhelstX etc work really hard in Java so that we do not have to. I have personally donated to library developers for libraries that I use, especially if I am personally making money from their libraries. Why should I make money from libraries and not donate to the library developer for a pint or two of nice cold lager. I have even donated to a library developer and I don't use their libraries, I received a nice emailing from the developer asking me which library I was donating for, I responded by saying that it was just a donation for all the work that he does.

    Please remember that these library developers also answer hundreds and hundreds of members questions. Also remember that most library developers usually create libraries in their spare time after work or during the weekends. They could be out doing something else with friends or family or just snuggling up to their partners ;), but no they are online answering questions and creating or wrapping hundreds of libraries for us to use. Look at the following link, 42 libraries to date created or wrapped, please do not tell me that this developer does not deserve a small donation now and again for a pint of lager or some orange juice ;)

    I for one will never complain about the donate buttons added to library posts. I really appreciate the hard work that went into creating the library in the first place, just for us to use mainly for free. Plus I bet that 95%+ of users download the libraries and do not donate even though there's a visible donate button, that's up to them, but then they don't have the right to complain about the donate buttons on this forum. $5 is not a lot to donate to a developer for hours and hours and hours of hard work wrapping lots of libraries. Just $5 to buy the developer a drink to say thank you goes a long way IMO.

    This is to all the library developers out there...
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2015
    rboeck, Erel, lemonisdead and 4 others like this.
  11. sorex

    sorex Expert Licensed User

    2 days ago some new person entered the chat and asked for help.

    while I was explaining the cause of his problems and putting a code solution on pastebin he already looked me up on this forum and donate some money.

    some people are more generous/thankfull than others and it's nice to get this sign off appreciation every now and then even when it might be just 1 euro.

    and no, we don't get rich from the donations ;)
    Beja, corwin42, DonManfred and 3 others like this.
  12. Filippo

    Filippo Expert Licensed User

    @Peter Simpson
    I have just written something because it did not exist previously.

    I have never asked anything for my works and will it in future also never ask forum members.
    I'm sorry but it seems to me as if I was beg.

    Of course, my works are not as important as many others here.:(

    But of course, everyone can do what it wants.
    I do not mind.
  13. thedesolatesoul

    thedesolatesoul Expert Licensed User

    Everything is important. They are all building blocks, one layer on top of the other. If you werent here, many of us wouldnt be here.
    Your point of view is valid, and very generous of you. Thank you.
  14. Peter Simpson

    Peter Simpson Expert Licensed User

    @Filippo all work is important on this forum including yours, if you do not want to add a donate button to your posts then that's your prerogative not to do so. @thedesolatesoul, @DonManfred, @Informatix, @corwin42, @agraham et al have donate buttons or links and I personally do not blame them. There are other developers who don't have a donate button, that's completely up to them. I think a small donation is always nice to give at the end of the month on pay day. $5 is just a small amount, maybe a pint (as long as you don't live in the UK), Blank DVD's, a McDonald's meal, a pair of socks ;) etc...
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2015
    RandomCoder, lemonisdead and Filippo like this.
  15. sorex

    sorex Expert Licensed User

    I guess he's aiming for some stuff that's chargable. The donate buttons are a free choice, we don't force you in any way to click on it so it's still the clicker's decision.
  16. HotShoe

    HotShoe Well-Known Member Licensed User

    I have had a donation button in the past, but I took it off because it was depressing to me how it was ignored. I received 1 donation in 3 years and instead of getting depressed, or angry, or feeling ignored, I took it off. It is nice to be appreciated and it is nice to see your libraries used and discussed, and to me, that is enough now. I would like to see a list of donated libraries used in each app that is posted in the share your creations forum, just to get an idea of what is being used, but again, it's not that big a deal. That way at least I and others would get some sense of appreciation.

    --- Jem
    Cableguy, thedesolatesoul and LucaMs like this.
  17. sorex

    sorex Expert Licensed User

    Well, it must be depressing for some that their work is part of a payed or well earning ad revenue app and that they don't even get a donation for it.

    And face it, without all those 3rd party libs/classes B4A might be too limited with just the core apps so it's part of the success.

    It should be a rule that if you earned €500 with your app that you donate everyone who's involved in the app lib/class wise.

    But that will never happen as you don't have control on that.

    Most of the time I only use the core libs myself tho but I donated some just for their valuable info or for helping me out.

    It's part of the give & take.
    Peter Simpson likes this.
  18. LucaMs

    LucaMs Expert Licensed User

    The solution is (in your signature):

    "You could donate, it is optional; but if you don't, you seize a curse". (Google Translate; I hope it is correct :D)
  19. sorex

    sorex Expert Licensed User

    LOL :)

    if your friend or relatives are helping with something in or around the house, or moving from one house to another you give them lunch or a few drinks aswell.

    same thing actually.

    Unless you're one of those who sit on your money and only take efforts from others without doing something back (doesn't even need to be material)
  20. corwin42

    corwin42 Expert Licensed User

    I will keep my libraries always free. And it will be always free to use them and if a libraries developer asks I will give him the source if he needs it.
    I think I have never asked for a donation in a forum post, the donation link is just sitting in my signature.

    The main purpose I write the libraries is fun and I like to find out what is possible and what not.

    If I think the library is useful for other B4A users I decide to release it. A small problem is that if I want to release a library I have to do lots of stuff I wouldn't do if I only develop it for my private use. I have to write documentation (for the popup help in the IDE at least), a forum post, clean up things that are in there just for testing and of course I have to take time to give support for the upcoming questions. Yes, this is much work sometimes.

    So I don't think it is a bad thing for a developer to ask for a small donation for his work. I'm always happy if I receive a Paypal mail with a "donation received" content and this is really a small motivation for going on with my work. Thanks for all donators.

    The biggest problem for me is my spare time. I have a fulltime job, a family with two nice childs, a house with a huge garden and so there isn't that much time for other things like developing with and for B4A. Sometimes I have thought of reducing my hours for my fulltime job to have more time for Android app and library development but I fear the financial risk for my family.
    Cableguy, Erel, DonManfred and 4 others like this.
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