JPMorgan Chase CEO calls bitcoin a 'fraud'

[Beja]

In China it's the government that prints money, not private banks.

 

[mrred128]

Here is my answer as to what you have in your wallet, and you may not like it.

Open your wallet and take out your paper money. It does not matter what country you are from. Whether you are in the U.S., Europe, Canada, Australia, Japan etc..
Take a long hard look at one of these bills, like a $20 bill. What does this represent? Take your time. Think long and hard. <I'll wait>

99% of you will say this $20 bill represents money.
And 99% of you would be wrong.

Your paper currency is not money. It is debt. Your government is still paying interest on that $20 bill that you hold in your hand. And this interest must be paid to the Central Bank that printed the $20 bill. Why? Because no country in the world (except around 3 or 4) are allowed to print their own currency. All other countries including your own, must borrow the money from your Central Bank. Your government provides bonds (U.S. treasury prints treasury bonds) and gives them to the Central Bank as collateral in exchange for the currency. Most people think this is OK because the government prints bonds (paper) and they get the equivalent paper in return in the form of currency, namely $20 bills. It is far from fair.

The bonds will come due, usually in 10 to 30 years and these bonds have interest owing on them. The government must pay the holder of these bonds their face value plus interest. If the government borrowed $10 billion and issued bonds with a 4% yield, after 30 years the government owes the principal, $10 billion, plus 224% interest which makes the total $32.4 billion (if I've done my math right). Where does the government get the money to pay off these bonds? Well, the treasury prints more government bonds and gives them to the Central Bank for more paper currency. And if the government's credit rating deteriorates, they will need to pay more interest, say 5% or 6% on these new bonds because the risk of default is higher. And after 30 years at 6% yield, the government will need to pay 474% interest which makes the total of $186 billion. So after 60 years, that original $10 Billion debt has ballooned to $186 Billion. And this is without incurring any new additional debt.

Ok, so most of you say, so what. They are exchanging paper for paper. What's the big deal?
When the country's credit rating fails, like Greece did, and the Central Bank (like the ECB - European Central Bank) is no longer willing to loan the government any more currency, the banks come in and will force the government to sell its public institutions for pennies on the dollar. The country will sell off its waste and water infrastructure to private corporations that are friends of the bank at deeply discounted prices. If the electrical grid is a public institution, it will be sold off to raise money to pay the interest on the debt. The government usually owns a very profitable lottery commission that makes billions of dollars for the government every year. Well, that gets sold for $30 million to more friends of the bank. The palms of the government officials are adequately greased so they do not put up much of a fuss. And the new super highways will become toll roads where the revenues are funneled to private corporations. Government land is sold to private interests so their resources can be plundered for pennies on the dollar. Every public corporation or utility that was bought and paid for by its citizens over the past 100 years, will eventually be turned over to private corporations at a pittance. These corporations will then turn around and double or even triple the cost of water, sewer, and electricity to the citizens of the country without lifting a finger to improve the existing infrastructure. The citizens will pay dearly in the end.

And if the government borrows more and more money for capital projects (which also increases its debt), inflation will increase because more money is put into circulation. There are more jobs, more wages and of course more money is needed to pay them. Anyone who has spent their life saving money will soon find their nest egg buys less and less every year because of inflation. Pension funds are never adequate to cover the high cost of living and this high cost of living is caused by more money in circulation that is driving up the prices.

But there is the other side of the equation that many of you never consider. What has the Central Bank put up in this transaction? (And here is the part you won't like.)
The Central Banks have put up the money for the paper and ink to print the currency. (Today it is just an electronic transfer so they don't even need to print money.) It costs the Central Bank around 15 cents to print a $100 bill and they charge the government the full $100 plus the interest that can never be paid back. The interest can never be paid back because only the Central Bank is allowed to print the currency. And the government can only borrow the currency at interest from the Central Bank to pay back the previous currency it borrowed years earlier. This cycle will continue until the debt gets so high the Central Bank calls in the loan and the private vultures come in to divvy up the goods. All countries will end up this way. If it hasn't yet happened to your country, then wait a few more years. With the massive amount of debt countries now owe, a small 3% to 4% rise in interest rates will make it impossible for your government to pay off the interest. 100% of the revenues the government collects in taxes and fees will go to the Central Bank just to pay the interest on the debt.

When a country gives up its right to print its own currency, its citizens become chattel for the banks. This happened in 1913 in the U.S. when the Federal Reserve was created, which in reality is a private bank owned by Wall Street along with a few foreign oligarchs. The Federal Reserve is neither Federal nor does it have any Reserves. Rather ironic, don't you think?

BitCoin and other crypto currencies (LiteCoin, Dash etc.), if allowed to flourish, will put an end to this Ponzi scheme by the banks because the currency will be created and controlled by the public. We will no longer need banks to issue currency or even loans. The banks cannot let this happen and will try their best to destroy Bitcoin and replace it with one of their own crypto currencies (Ripple?). If the banks are allowed to do so, then there will be no currency outside of the banks, and the banks will control every thing and own everything, including you and me.

This crypto currency war will affect everyone on the planet. We are headed to a cashless society whether we like it or not. The question is, who will control it?
I hope this has awoken some of you. If you want to know more how this bankster criminal organization operates, read "The Creature From Jekyll Island".

Oh, and don't forget to put your wallet away. In 10 to 15 years you probably won't need a wallet because there won't be a paper currency to put in it.

It's not a ponzi scheme. It is a mechanism put in place to prevent what had happened in the 1930-1940's. (example.... Germany tried to get themselves out of debt from WWI by over printing currency, which caused their own problem of rampent inflation which allowed NAZI's to take over promising and delivering a stable economy) It put's the brakes to countries just printing currency at will. Although you call it a central bank, it actually can be any foreign country.......as long as it is not themselves.

Greece was a perfect example of how the system worked to prevent a country from economic disaster. If you had listened to the citizens, there were no problems and the government just needed to keep spending money. How long can you make a dollar and spend two? The system works.

 

[udg]

It put's the brakes to countries just printing currency at will.

Exactly what all those gentlemen do. Not to mention the "financial economy" valued at about 80 times annual worldwide GDP.
IMO, anyone announcing a new currency strongly linked to scarse real goods (gold, silver, doses of life-saving vaccine..) will easily earn people's trust. I hope that Bitcoins and similar currencies are just the initial steps backward to a pre-fiat currencies economy. Like a pendulum, we reached one end and we need to swing back.

Greece was a perfect example

Sorry, but I disagree. Greece is a perfect example of usury. On one hand they loaned it money and on the other imposed to use that money to buy unneeded military equipment and return loans to private banks which did conduct extremely risky business there. Result? People in misery, no medicines and harbors and other national tangibles goods taken by those dear helping souls..

 

[mrred128]

...
Sorry, but I disagree. Greece is a perfect example of usury. On one hand they loaned it money and on the other imposed to use that money to buy unneeded military equipment and return loans to private banks which did conduct extremely risky business there. Result? People in misery, no medicines and harbors and other national tangibles goods taken by those dear helping souls..

Really? So if I spend $2 for every $1 I earn and evidently become bankrupt, I can just call foul and keep all of my possessions and all my income too? Doesn't that just breed fiscal responsibility.

It's how Greece got there that is important and they did it to themselves. That's just academic. What they didn't need is more money. They need fiscal restraint and the hardship was done by themselves.

 

[Widget]

It's not a ponzi scheme. It is a mechanism put in place to prevent what had happened in the 1930-1940's. (example.... Germany tried to get themselves out of debt from WWI by over printing currency,

Did you ask yourself how Germany got into so much debt? After WWI the countries signed an armistice and then met at Versailles in 1919 with the 4 nations involved to discuss peace terms. German gave up some of its territory and had restrictions put on its military. After 2 years of work, they decided Germany needed to pay reparations of $768 billion in today's dollars. Which is a staggering amount of money. They eventually settled on $402 billion which is still a ridiculous amount. It would take Germany over 50 years for them to pay it back. The bankers wanted to make an example out of Germany and make them pay until it hurts. And hurt it did. The only way for Germany to pay this money is to print it, and they did by the train load. If it wasn't for the crazy amount of reparations forced onto Germany, Hitler would never have risen to power and we would not have had WWII. But the bankers needed wars because war is very profitable for them. It was Wall Street banks like JP Morgan that financed Hitler's rise to power in the 1930's, and it was Prescott Bush (George W. Bush's grandfather) who was the head of the Union Bank who laundered Nazi money during WWII. War is very profitable for bankers because they finance both sides. When one side looses, they go in like vultures and clean the carcass. To the victor goes the spoils. Without financing from Central Banks, there can be no major wars because the wars would have to be paid with gold and not fiat currency. Do you think it was a coincidence that WWI started (1914) just 1 year after the Federal Reserve was created in 1913? BTW, Germany finally paid off the last of its reparations for WWI in 2010. There is a good documentary on youtube called "All Wars Are Bankers Wars" and I recommend it.

 

[Widget]

That is depressing...
But who put the $176 Billion in interest in their pocket?

I don't understand the question. Whose pockets are you referring to?

 

[basicall]

It is interesting to see bitcoin topic in B4X forum. The following is a more interesting news:

After the Boss Calls Bitcoin a ‘Fraud’ — JP Morgan Buys the Dip

After a Few Harsh Statements from Executive Jamie Dimon, JP Morgan Ltd., and Morgan Stanley Purchase Bitcoin ETNs

According to public records of Nordnet trading logs, the two associated firms JP Morgan Securities Ltd., and Morgan Stanley bought roughly 3M euro worth of XBT note shares. Interestingly after the recent regulatory crackdown in China, and the statements from JP Morgan’s senior executive Jamie Dimon talking trash about bitcoin, his firm bought the dip on September 15. In fact, out of all the companies on the list, like Goldman Sachs and Barclays, the JP Morgan team of buyers purchased the most XBT notes.

https://news.bitcoin.com/after-the-boss-calls-bitcoin-a-fraud-jp-morgan-buys-the-dip/

 

[wonder]

Take that Mr. CEO!!

CNBC: The cryptocurrency market is now worth more than JPMorgan

 

[Widget]

Take that Mr. CEO!!

CNBC: The cryptocurrency market is now worth more than JPMorgan

That is encouraging news. I wish everyone in America who was cheated by a Wall Street bank, and there are millions of them, could walk up to the CEO and just give them a good swift kick in the ..., ahh, pants. (BTW, the line forms on my left).

Most people don't realize that Wall Street firms like JP Morgan and Goldman Sachs are criminal enterprises. They have rigged nearly everything. That is one way they make billions of dollars every year. They have placed their own computer servers inside the NYSE building so they could get the stock quotes milliseconds ahead of everyone else. Their algorithms see all the trades as they come in, and will buy the stock ahead of any large order coming in which drives the price up, or sell their stock if they see a large sell order which drives the price down. They shave the points on every major trade. They execute thousands of these transactions every day. That's why companies like JP Morgan and Goldman Sachs trading office has not had a losing day in over 3 years! If you can read the cards in the hand of your opponent, you will always win. And that's how they make their money. They will also repossess people's homes that they don't even own. Or companies like Wells Fargo will sign up their customers for credit cards without their knowledge and then hit them with service fees and late charges on a credit card they didn't even know they had. I won't even get into the nastier part of their operations like laundering drug money, trafficking organs, or trafficking people including kids.

If Bitcoin can take down part of their operations, more power to it. There are over 3,000 crypto currencies and tokens waiting in the wings for their chance to kick them where it hurts.

 

[Beja]

Enjoy the show!

 

[Beja]

A good CNN report..

 

[tufanv]

The people who do not believe in bitcoin gets happy when bitcoin falls , I see this every time and at the end they also buy bitcoin for higher prices, we will talk about being bitcoin around $30,000 in spring or summer again
I think some people must stop being logical and buy some and get some profit while they can . When this topic was first crated bitcoin was $3800 and I bought some at that price and sold at $15,000 week ago , it doesnt have to last forever ( while I think it will last for many years ) , it is good to catch opportunities like this.

 

[wonder]

I just bought some more! Just in time for Xmas!!!
Long live the blockchain!

My silly predictions for February 1st 2018:

BTC:  $24k
ETH:  $1k
XMR:  $500
IOTA: $6.2
XRP:  $1.3

 

[Beja]

"it doesnt have to last forever ( while I think it will lastfor many years ) , it is good to catch opportunities like this."

Best answer.
Acknowledge that bitcoin is another form of pyramid scheme that early birds can benefit from -then explodes.
I don't gamble though.

 

[moster67]

I bought 2 bitcoins a few years ago when the prices were in the lower hundreds and not in thousands. During the years, I have used some of the balance to pay stuff but nearly everything is still in my wallet.

Of course I am very pleased with its increasing value however so far I have been using it to pay stuff by transferring from my wallet to another wallet (no real cash involved). I now think it's time to sell some to get real cash to cover at least my initial expenditures and investment. What is the best way to sell in order to avoid too much transaction costs? Is there a market-place? Is it realtime, like with stocks? Is it difficult to find buyers?

 

[wonder]

What is the best way to sell in order to avoid too much transaction costs? Is there a market-place? Is it realtime, like with stocks? Is it difficult to find buyers?

I wouldn't sell now, but who am I to give such an advice?

So if you really want to sell, you have two options:

1) You can use a reputable exchange like Coinbase.
Despite some bad publicity here and there (downtime, shady practices), my experience overall has been quite positive.
In order to comply with international law, you'll be required to provide a copy of your ID/Passport, before cashing in.
How long does it take? ~One week.

2) You can use LocalBitcoins.com.
Which is basically a peer-to-peer market where you transfer your bitcoins into someone's account and you'll get money in return.
Pros: Anonymous transactions, no ID verification
Cons: All the dangers of an anonymous peer-to-peer transaction
How long does it take? Instant cash / one day transfer

3) If you just want to get rid of them in return for a Xmas card, you can deposit them into the BTC address in my signature...

 

[ilan]

bitcoin is now going down... it was about 20k and now 13.384
its time to sell it i guess

 

[moster67]

Thanks @wonder
I am only selling enough to get back my initial investment.
I saw some sites where you would get your money by paypal but the commission was very high.

 

[wonder]

bitcoin is now going down... it was about 20k and now 13.384
its time to sell it i guess

 

[ilan]

it looks more like this wonder: