Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by IanMc, Mar 28, 2015.

  1. IanMc

    IanMc Well-Known Member Licensed User

    My first patent application


    feel free to spam me :D
    Peter Simpson likes this.
  2. wimpie3

    wimpie3 Well-Known Member Licensed User

    Can you tell us a bit more about this procedure?
  3. Beja

    Beja Expert Licensed User

    IanMac.png ________________________________________
    Congratulation and hope you will get the pat without paper Ping-Pong.
    For the report, I bet they are using Fredric's UltralistView library.
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2015
  4. IanMc

    IanMc Well-Known Member Licensed User

    They want several documents, i kind of made them on the fly which is probably not best practice.

    You have to go through the website page after page and sometimes they provide boxes that you think you should click on but you can't actually click on them....

    I think the normal procedure is to look up anything that might come near your patent, usually freely viewable from the US patents, then pretend that you're a lawyer and copy the 'legalese' saying things like:

    Current jurisdiction in nuclear web theory does not prove a negative link between the strong force and dark matter...

    But I just said

    'this is what I invented'

    'this is why I think its new and an invention'

    along the way I kind of also said something like 'I hope the UK patent office will see my point of view'

    yes I begged

    I did also say 'pardon my lack of legalese'

    then lastly I provided them with a crappy scan of a pencil drawing of my idea.

    I'm obviously going to get the patent :D

    at some point, I 'may' be able to state on the thing that I intend to sell 'Patent applied for'

    I tried to be serious, honest I did.
  5. IanMc

    IanMc Well-Known Member Licensed User

    The documents that they want are:

    1) Description Document (all of these have to be in pdf format)
    2) Abstract (erm.... kind of put it in little words)
    3) Claims Document, what inventions related to this claim are you claiming
    4) Preliminary Drawing Document (the idea is that from this drawing a competent engineer can reconstruct a prototype of your idea)

    So my idea of a black matter inverter using Basic4android as the catalyst...

    No I have SAID TOO MUCH!
  6. Beja

    Beja Expert Licensed User

    Pretty much the same as in the US.
    In US there is a simplified application called "Provisional Patent Application" where you have to only pay about $120.
    of course you must detail your invention in a manner that any one with experience in the art can reproduce it. But it doesn't
    have to be in the format of the real final non-provisional application.. you just describe in plain text with some pictures without
    the hassle of listing claims in legal jargon.
    They lock whatever you say in a drawer without looking at it for one year, (no examination, search...etc.) and they would send you a "US Patent Pending" number
    that you can print on your product and start selling confidently for one year.. before the end of the 12th. month, you nave to file for the final application
    and pay a lot of money for different forms.. otherwise they will discard your documents and your work will be in the public domain -not protected.
  7. IanMc

    IanMc Well-Known Member Licensed User

    Yes I think that's the same here.
    Good idea I think as it makes it a lot easier for anyone with a good idea to at least start the patent process.
  8. udg

    udg Expert Licensed User

    Talking about patents applied to software and not material stuff, do you know if:
    - elements of UI can be patented ( I mean never seen before objects)
    - workflow of software inner working
    - specific know-how about some common task done in a greatly innovative and efficient way
    - mixing existing technologies to solve a common problem in an innovative way

    I know I should ask a lawyer, but maybe you already collected some useful info.


    ps: @IanMc , congratulations!
  9. Beja

    Beja Expert Licensed User

    - elements of UI can be patented ( I mean never seen before objects)
    + Please note there are a number of patent types.. GUI like buttons, shapes and layouts..etc, can
    patented as "Design Patent" not utility patent. Design patents are for everything that has no function.
    You just want to protect the way it looks.. Car body, Cup, Chair, Software button, new fonts.. etc.
    In contrast, Utility Patent can only be granted to a new device that does something.. has a function..
    Input - Process, Output. Remember Apple vs Samsung case.

    - workflow of software inner working
    + See the 4th item below.

    - specific know-how about some common task done in a greatly innovative and efficient way
    + You have two options.. either you protect by yourself, and you are confident no one can brake your security algorithm
    (Coca-Cola never patented its formula, yet it kept secret for more than 100 years) OR you patent it and you are protected
    for about 20 years or so.. but no guarantee that someone can copy it illegally. At least you can sell it and no one will take you to court.. lol (your decision)

    - mixing existing technologies to solve a common problem in an innovative way
    + You can mix anything, but the examiner only looks at your claims, if you are using Martin's Geocoder library it's ok but don't
    claim it.

    All inventions are about mixing technologies, even a new technology is a mixture or enhancement of different technologies.. a brand new concept built on a new theory is a 'discovery' not invention and can not be patented.. it belongs to mankind.
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2015
  10. udg

    udg Expert Licensed User

    @Beja: thank you so much; your comments made it clearer to me the whole picture.

    My questions arose from my willingness to help a friend to protect his intellectual work. He's a non-tech person who found a very smart way to make it simple and linear his daily job. That 30yrs experience went in a software that is selling well, but now he fears that others could simply duplicate the functionality and go their way.
    So I suggested to patent the workflow (that is where his know-how resides) rather than screenshots (i.e. UI elements on a page).

    I understand that since the software utilizing those "to be patented" concepts is already out there his claim is weaker than if he patented before the first sw release, but after all the patent issue is an afterthought..

  11. Beja

    Beja Expert Licensed User

    concerning the mixing technologies, I forgot to mention that you have to be careful and don't mix someone else's technology if it is
    already patented.. unless you put at lease 30% improvement to that technology. (30+% more efficient)
    Also a technology that have been disclosed to the public for more than 1 year may not be patentable.
  12. moster67

    moster67 Expert Licensed User


    Patent (IP)-laws in Europe are not always the same as those in the US. Most European Patents follow a procedure by first filing a national patent application and thereafter as an EP-Patent application at the European Patent Office. If and once it gets granted, it can be validated in all states which are part of the European Patent Office. Some categories of patents can be filed and granted in the US but cannot be extended in Europe (also the opposite is true).

    What regards a "workflow" (a process), I am unsure if you can apply for a patent in Europe. I think it can be considered as "copyright" if filed and documented. You really need to check this with an Intellectual Property Office in Switzerland to be sure and on the safe side.

    PS: I work for a private Intellectual Property Office but I am within IT/Accounts so I can't help much :)
  13. udg

    udg Expert Licensed User

    Thanks all for your very useful hints.
    At this stage my goal was to better understand the subject and its rules so to be well informed when approaching a professional to further discuss my friend's needs.
  14. Troberg

    Troberg Well-Known Member Licensed User

    One note about the EU: Software can't be patented, only copyrighted.
  15. sorex

    sorex Expert Licensed User

    I didn't know you could patent something for £20 or $120, I thought it was a nightmare that took years and year to complete and also a lot more money?
    (that's why a lot of companies skipped it)
  16. Beja

    Beja Expert Licensed User

    It's a nightmare indeed and take years and a lot of money.. the $20 and $120 is the screensaver :)
    this low cost fee, I mean the $120 in US, is for protection for one year only.. during which you must apply for the final patent.
    Also it is not guaranteed and if someone came out and said you are using his technology, and proved his claims, then you will
    have to stop promoting it (at least) :)
  17. sorex

    sorex Expert Licensed User

    In europe it's even worse, all tech stuff needs to be translated for each country that has another language than english or the native one.

    I believe they (european instance) are about to review/change all that tho to reduce all the paperwork.
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice