Who come out with this idea?

[hibrid0]

I will repeat my story again. I had bad experiences with at least 2 potential customers last year. They had very different expectations than I had. Since I decided to quit my full time job last year, many came to me but none of the projects come to fruition. I guess one reason is they look down on what I capable to do with the expensive quote I offered. What I quoted is actually lower rate than my previous full time job salary but companies see that as a big lump sum of money. Many efforts were spent by me to plan the project management, I even provided full Gantt chart of the project milestones and I successfully made proof of concepts of solution to the problem they had but eventually seems they really have no budget for the projects. I have wasted a lot of time but not being paid anything. Being bad luck for so many times, I don’t want the next project ended the same again so I offer a much lower rate where this round I tried to be less professional in deliverables. This round I don’t want to do free research and study. I only want a simple freelance job based on case basis. Since this round is a maintenance service, if I charge high then customer will ask me to justify why my charge is higher than the development charge. I also being tricked before project started the vendor told me it was a simple app but when I got the source code I realized it is a very complex app with bad practice and deprecated code. Since I never sign any contract with them, I will quit anytime I want.

Aeric many of us think our time to bill is just for coding and is not, we have time in meeting, investigation, writing manuals and thinking. And all time need to be billed.
Every meet we need to bill and a very nice recomendation from the book are about the changes and small features the customers ask after the project start.
Every single change or feature need a new quoation. And say in this way, the new feature need really urgent is not urgent.
And other recomendation from the book and start to love it, say about take more time defining the project, features, fields etc and write it very clear and again, all changes the client want after this step, need a new quoation. say take all time on this step will help you in the future. If the project was approved and need anything new you pass or pass the client is more money for you. In my experience this last tip I love it. The clients start with the "Simple App", and ask for small feature and the project will not work without it. In the past I accept it without new bill and the client start making more changes and more changes.

 

[aeric]

Aeric many of us think our time to bill is just for coding and is not, we have time in meeting, investigation, writing manuals and thinking. And all time need to be billed.
Every meet we need to bill and a very nice recomendation from the book are about the changes and small features the customers ask after the project start.
Every single change or feature need a new quoation. And say in this way, the new feature need really urgent is not urgent.
And other recomendation from the book and start to love it, say about take more time defining the project, features, fields etc and write it very clear and again, all changes the client want after this step, need a new quoation. say take all time on this step will help you in the future. If the project was approved and need anything new you pass or pass the client is more money for you.

Yes, problem is business people and customers are not educated to understand. They think our job is like daily data entry clerk. Solution appears like magic. Software development market is seriously spoilt here. The skill set I have is quite niche where it is difficult to find people appreciate and pay me fairly. If you mentioned that I need more time to define the project which I already done then it happened that they have no budget for the proposal I prepared to them. They will never feel guilty to get free quote and test the water. I try to avoid being a victim but it is a reality. Those intangible events like meetings, travels and research if included will make them feel I am overcharged.

 

[hibrid0]

Yes, problem is business people and customers are not educated to understand. They think our job is like daily data entry clerk. Solution appears like magic. Software development market is seriously spoilt here. The skill set I have is quite niche where it is difficult to find people appreciate and pay me fairly. If you mentioned that I need more time to define the project which I already done then it happened that they have no budget for the proposal I prepared to them. They will never feel guilty to get free quote and test the water. I try to avoid being a victim but it is a reality. Those intangible events like meetings, travels and research if included will make them feel I am overcharged.

If we dont include we are working for almost free. And other thing we need to be more competitive.
Check this framework for web apps. https://www.openxava.org/demos/ I talk about Xava Pro. Maybe exist better. In this tool we define the fields on the code for the database (If table not exist, he create it, if field not exist he create it), the realtions and the framework build the web interface, manage roles and make it ready for Software as a Service, without you thinking on it, they make it for you, and is not a code generator, this tool talk about bussiness rules. But this type of tool help us to get more success.
Other I see and I love is this https://www.dreamfactory.com/ to get API ready from almost any database with authentication, mail and API file Upload compatible with FTP, AWS, Google Etc in 30 minutes ready.
Strapi.

 

[aeric]

If we dont include we are working for almost free.

Yes I agree but when we include that in the quote that may give a bad first impression to some customers. The trust is not built yet when we are still strangers and I always have lack of support from the middle man who doesn’t help to justify for me.

Check this framework

Thanks for sharing, I have seen Open Xava before.

Let me share a bit more on the above mentioned customers.

Customer A:
require to build a mobile app to connect to a proprietary accounting system. The accounting system has cloud API but it is not free to use. So I need to build the backend API to connect to customers local setup and consume by the app. I was able to convert the desktop C# code to web base API.

Customer B:
require to build a mobile app to connect to a legacy accounting system which uses DBF (probably FoxPro db).

Both the projects above are bespoke solutions and more to integration besides a new mobile development. It’s not easy to do but I am lucky I got the solutions. Unfortunately they said they have no budget or I have the feeling that they think such easy things I can successfully found the solution in short period of research doesn’t need to charge so expensive.

 

[hibrid0]

Yes I agree but when we include that in the quote that may give a bad first impression to some customers. The trust is not built yet when we are still strangers and I always have lack of support from the middle man who doesn’t help to justify for me.

Thanks for sharing, I have seen Open Xava before.

Let me share a bit more on the above mentioned customers.

Customer A:
require to build a mobile app to connect to a proprietary accounting system. The accounting system has cloud API but it is not free to use. So I need to build the backend API to connect to customers local setup and consume by the app. I was able to convert the desktop C# code to web base API.

Customer B:
require to build a mobile app to connect to a legacy accounting system which uses DBF (probably FoxPro db).

Both the projects above are bespoke solutions and more to integration besides a new mobile development. It’s not easy to do but I am lucky I got the solutions. Unfortunately they said they have no budget or I have the feeling that they think such easy things I can successfully found the solution in short period of research doesn’t need to charge so expensive.

If a Lawyer bill every meet for hour, why we not?
if the client don't understand that is not a good client for us. In my experince we talk that clear on the website, the client read the rules, if they call us, know how to work. If not like it, just call other.

 

[aeric]

If a Lawyer bill every meet for hour, why we not?
if the client don't understand that is not a good client for us. In my experince we talk that clear on the website, the client read the rules, if they call us, know how to work. If not like it, just call other.

I guess software engineer/developer/architect or whatsoever in my place is not reputable. The layman treat us just like any PC technician who go to your house, check for virus, troubleshoot your printer driver, reformat your windows and replace the broken hard disk. It just cost $25 per hour or trip. When we tell people we develop software, what came to their mind is, “oh, you are in IT!”.

 

[hibrid0]

I guess software engineer/developer/architect or whatsoever in my place is not reputable. The layman treat us just like any PC technician who go to your house, check for virus, troubleshoot your printer driver, reformat your windows and replace the broken hard disk. It just cost $25 per hour or trip. When we tell people we develop software, what came to their mind is, “oh, you are in IT!”.

Before I start to work on a company think like that. But after see how work a company. Everything is Billed. Need a meet ok, no problem. But the company make a report and bill it.
Maybe is talking with very small business.

 

[aeric]

Before I start to work on a company think like that. But after see how work a company. Everything is Billed. Need a meet ok, no problem. But the company make a report and bill it.
Maybe is talking with very small business.

The challenge is big companies is not convinced by small company like me. Worse is small companies also think the same and demanded high quality of work with very minimum pay.

 

[Unobtainius]

The problem with scope creep is that unless you smack their hand right away they're going to keep on doing it throughout the entire project.

You have to approach them with it from the angle that you are happy to add or change what they want, for the same agreed upon price, but ask them which already agreed upon feature they want to remove to keep the price the same. Remember you already had an agreed upon price for an agreed upon amount of work.

They are business people too and they don't do things for free otherwise they wouldn't be in business long. What they will do though is try and get you to do things for free. If you do so, then it's you that won't be in business for long sorry.

You may actually stay in business for quite a while but only make enough money the bearly survive. At that point you are really not in a business but a poorly paid job, so may as well just go and work for someone else without all the hassle of running a business.

 

[KiloBravo]

May not apply to your situation but ...
In US based companies some software development activities are a capital expense and other's are not.
For these companies it is very important to follow the GAAP accounting rules.

Most companies I have worked for require a weekly timesheet to be submitted with a break down of where you spent your time each day.
Activities you log your time against have project numbers. Some of those project numbers are capx=yes and some capx=no.
They want most if not all of a software developer's time spent in capx=yes activities.

Accounting for external-use software development costs in an agile environment - Journal of Accountancy

Learn which software costs should be capitalized and which costs should be expensed when an entity builds external-use software using an agile development environment.

www.journalofaccountancy.com

Even when technological feasibility is established, not all agile development costs can be capitalized. In most cases, only some of the costs in each sprint can be capitalized. The costs that should not be capitalized include upfront analysis, knowledge acquisition, initial project planning, prototyping, and comparable design work that must be done to achieve an understanding of the product’s desired features and feasibility.

But large portions of the costs incurred to develop and test such features often should be capitalized if technological feasibility is achieved. These costs include the actual coding, testing, and associated labor costs.

Bear in mind, however, that any maintenance-related or error-correction costs that are incurred during the sprint may need to be expensed rather than capitalized, as many activities during the sprint may not be coding and testing but may be activities such as troubleshooting and discovery. Moreover, capitalization ends once the project is complete and the software is ready for use.