No more divergence

Discussion in 'Basic4ppc Wishlist' started by colin9876, Jun 9, 2008.

  1. colin9876

    colin9876 Active Member Licensed User

    after hours of trying to convert basic4ppc progs to actually run on the ppc I have to say ...
    don't loose sight of the fact that this is 4ppc

    At the risk of offending AGraham (About time he had a taste of his own medicine lol) I say that 'for desktop only librarys' should Not be encouraged - they eventually do basic4ppc a dis-service.

    Also the disparity in the way Mousemove works should be fixed ASAP. If necessary call it Stylus move, then only activate it on desktop when the mousemoves with the button down
  2. BjornF

    BjornF Active Member Licensed User

    Not quite sure whether this is the right place, but.... I really disagree

    I for my part really enjoy the fact that, with the help of e.g. Andrew´s libraries, it is possible to write a simple and fast application for the Pc. (Which is then easy to adjust for the ppc if you need it there as well, two for the price of 1.5 :) .)

    The fact that it is possible to write nice (pc-)programs fast using Basic4ppc is a tremendous advantage me.

    Isn't it comparatively simple to just avoid using the non-relevant dll's if you are only interested in programming for the ppc?

    all the best / Björn
  3. Cableguy

    Cableguy Expert Licensed User

    I couldn't agree more with you, BjornF

    One of Basic4PPc MileStones was in fact the possability to code in and for the Desktop as well as for the device....
    As BjornF said it's two, but for the price of 1/8th, when compared with other platforms, that more than often, are not so easy to start using as B4PPc is...

    Users, like Andrew (Agraham), Dzt, Fillipo, myself, etc, who strive to enhance the usabillity of B4PPc, to their own needs, and feel their work is good enought to share with the whole community, were/are/will forever be welcomed....

    A BIG thanks goes to all of them, as with their help, time and knowleage, I have learned a lot more on work to code for the device, it's limitations and capabilities...

    Collin, as BjornF said, if one does not wish to use a desktop only Dll, then we do not need to do so...
    Do as I do..I keep two seperate for the Oficial Dlls, and onother for the user created Dlls...And believe's not that easy to code without using one of them...
  4. colin9876

    colin9876 Active Member Licensed User


    hmmmm, im not knocking anyones librarys etc, but some of the biggest influences come from people who never run their code on a device. the ppc side is definitely under represented.
    I still think the Mousemove disparity should be fixed. the desktop runtime should emulate the device - not respond in a different way.
    differences are not good for the progression of the product
  5. Cableguy

    Cableguy Expert Licensed User

    I have to agree with you when you say
    But since MOST of the creations sampled here WORK in both platforms, I see no harm...
    Still it would be nice to have a "Platform aware" project designer, and not just one designer for both platforms...
    I agree that stilus and mouse should be treated as two seperate controls....

    Again, the ability to "preview" and set DLL created controls, in the designer is also a must have ....
  6. klaus

    klaus Expert Licensed User

    Hi Colin9876,
    I don't really understand your concern about the MouseEvents. You can just add 3 lines of code and the behaviour on the desktop is the same as on the device.

    Sub Form1_MouseDown

    End Sub

    Sub Form1_MouseMove
    If MouseActive=0 Then Return

    End Sub

    Sub Form1_MouseUp

    End Sub
    I have no problem with that, I develop on the desktop, and use my programs on the device.

    Best regards
  7. colin9876

    colin9876 Active Member Licensed User

    wrong way round

    My problem with that is I must put extra lines (slightly slowing it down) in my ppc code when I dont need it.

    I write my program on the ppc, should I have to think what I have to add so it will work on the desktop?

    The desktop should emulate the device - not the device code having to pander to the desktop!

    In my mind there shouldnt even need to be a 'if running on PPC =False' test. As in an ideal world the code would be the same and the desktop version would emulate a PPC

    - on that note your (fabulous) icon editor is one of the programs that I had to modify to work better on the device. It was slow, and save sometimes gave a runtime error. Clearly this is an issue which has never been raised because hardly anybody has tried it (or tried saving icon files) on the device???!!!
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2008
  8. klaus

    klaus Expert Licensed User

    Hi Colin9876,
    Could you post the improvements you made in the IconEditor, I would be interested in.
    Thank you in advance and Best Regards.
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2008
  9. colin9876

    colin9876 Active Member Licensed User

    Speed v Beauty lol!

    Klaus - ur code is very detailed and has some great functions so please dont think Im criticising ... it works very well on the desktop
    The changes I made were drawing coloured squares directly to the form so that would respond immediately to clicks and change shade etc.
    The point I was making that ur iconeditor is absolutely fine on the desktop, and has clearly been developed on that, but the pen movement lags on the device so that no points get colored in till the pen stops!

    I think you will have the same issues with the drawing program ur working on, u may get away with that complicated data structure on the desktop but it will be dead slow on the device.

    As to the saving problem, have u ever encountered an error with that?

    Anyway I will stop moaning now. I just think everyone should keep in mind us poor guys who only have ppcs to use lol!
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2008
  10. klaus

    klaus Expert Licensed User

    Hi Colin9876,

    I am always open to 'constructive' critics which I consider as improuvement suggestions. That's the way how a program or product becomes better.

    I don't remember having had errors when saving. The only problem I remember was when saving images, on the device with WM2003, formats other than bitmap gave an error. This is inherent to WM2003.

    Best regards.
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2008
  11. colin9876

    colin9876 Active Member Licensed User

    take a tip from Stanl3yCZ ....

    Well if u did want a pointer on what works fast and well on the device - look at Stanl3yCZ 's Rpaint that was posted on here.

    It is logically and minimalistically programed, and very smooth on the PPC.

    He never got much response when he posted his first project - in fact I dont know if he still frequents this board, but its very nice and simple code.

    Unfortunately PPCs are still running at slowish speeds where simple and efficient code is still a bonus. For example drawing direct to the screen, keeping objects in a simple object array etc will keep things fast.
    What goes on in desktop progs doesnt really matter these days as a PC processor can cope with heavy code!!
  12. Rioven

    Rioven Active Member Licensed User

    Hi All,
    So here is the wishlist, desktop IDE should have an option to somehow act like the device when running, i.e. can configure the speed like device, mouse to stylus behaviour, tells you whether syntax don't work for device, and even device buttons, etc. With this we will save time testing on PPC. I'm not sure though about the dll's nor this works. Just an idea.:)
  13. BjornF

    BjornF Active Member Licensed User

    Sounds like a very nice idea :) / Björn
  14. bdiscount

    bdiscount Active Member Licensed User

    I for one use B4ppc to program on the ppc. If I wanted to prog for the pc I would use VB or VC. As for people who use B4ppc for pc thats fine but I don't think B4ppc should be more complex so as to make it run on either pc or ppc
    The best thing about B4ppc is that it is easy to learn and not complex like VB net or VC ++ etc. In my younger days I used all but am too old to do so now. Keep B4ppc as is.
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