Windows Phone 7 Series

ExcludeReality

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As I speak (or write) Steve Ballmer, the CEO of Microsoft, is at Mobile World Congress 2010 showing off the new Windows Phone 7.

It will start shipping later this year, which got me thinking.
I know that it does not support legacy apps and so Basic4ppc won't work.
Will there be a version of Basic4ppc with support for the new WinMo 7.

I'm planning on getting it as soon as possible so it would be cool now that Windows Mobile is a dead platform.
Just speculating...
 

agraham

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I know that it does not support legacy apps and so Basic4ppc won't work.
I don't believe that Microsoft will abandon all that has gone before. I've found this comment about Compact Framework support
Don't worry guys. MS is not a masochist :).

There are two wersions of WM7: one for Zune Phone (the one without .NET support and with Marketplace app installation) and the other one for comercial licences (the ones we know, with everything onboard - Business Edition).

A version of WPF may be included but I can't believe that Windows Forms will not be supported. I guess the technical details will come out later, but for now I am not worried.
 

ExcludeReality

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This is all they said about development:
"At the end of the day, we all understand that in the business of info tech, software and creativity, and the innovation of developers is important. We build a new foundation with a rich set of development tools which we'll discuss at MIX next month."

As far as I know MIX is only for web developing.
One might suspect that Microsoft is taking the integrated web environment one step futher by only allowing web-based apps.
This is pretty much what Google tried with their Chrome OS (and they failed).
 
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digitaldon37

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As I speak (or write) Steve Ballmer, the CEO of Microsoft, is at Mobile World Congress 2010 showing off the new Windows Phone 7.

It will start shipping later this year, which got me thinking.
I know that it does not support legacy apps and so Basic4ppc won't work.
Will there be a version of Basic4ppc with support for the new WinMo 7.

I'm planning on getting it as soon as possible so it would be cool now that Windows Mobile is a dead platform.
Just speculating...

Here is a link - if anyone's interested: keynote with ballmer

I found it interesting that they placed an emphasis on PC, TV, and mobile. Aside from a SDK for their multimedia center - what else did they do to encourage development? I wanted to see an Express edition that supported MCE.

I hope that they provide some inexpensive or free tools to encourage mobile development. Or at least get some specs to Erel so we can get a B4PPC upgrade and start coding before W7 phones ship.
 

moster67

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I found this link

Exclusive Windows Phone 7 Series Offer for #MIX10 Attendees #WP7 :: News :: Microsoft MIX10

Citation:

"All MIX10 attendees will receive access to the Windows Phone 7 Series development tools and have access to a dedicated track on the Windows Phone 7 Series platform that runs throughout the event."

Erel, get that reservation and pack your bags and off you go to MIX10:)

Seriously, perhaps the rest of us will be able to get the SDK shortly after MIX10.

On a sidenote, it seems like the DTK for Windows Mobile 6.5.3 has finally been released here:

Download details: Windows Mobile 6.5.3 DTK
 

agraham

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Unless you can can turn off or get behind all the eye-candy rubbish and do real things I see that I am going to hate this phone. I don't do photos on a phone, I don't watch videos or listen to music, I don't play games and I don't participate in social networking of any sort. I hate dumbed-down "finger-friendly" interfaces and I loath with a passion flashy animations that just waste time when I want to navigate somewhere. Unlike Windows Mobile this is obviously squarely aimed at the CONsumer and not the PROsumer like me. However Stebe Ballmer did say "We will continue to invest in Windows Mobile 6.5 but Windows Phone 7 is a new generation." so maybe we will end up with Phone 7 for the plebs and Phone 6.5 for business and geeks. I read somewhere that there are still about 30 new WM6.5 phones yet to be launched and we won't see a Windows 7 phone till November (if then!).

There are many scare-mongering rumours about lack of multi-tasking and not being able to load your own apps that might or might not be true - we won't know until after MIX10 and maybe not the full technical picture even then.

Like everyone else I have been Googling away to find any scrap of information that seems reliable and the believable consensus seems to be that a version of Silverlight will be the execution environment for applications. This is bad in that it will probably lock out access to the actual OS, so no more P/Invokes to the Win32 API for missing functionality. However bear in mind that Silverlight, stripped of hype, is essentially the Compact Framework running in a sandbox with WPF instead of Windows Forms for the GUI and will most likely be compilable by the C# 4.0 (and VB) compiler coming in VS2010. Silverlight 3 loosened the sandbox limitations and Silverlight 4 loosens them further so Silverlight is getting very close to being a viable replacement for the Compact Framework on which it was originally based. Microsoft is not stupid and knows it must lever its' existing developer base onto the new platform without too much pain so basing development on a version of Silverlight 4 and VS2010 would seem a good way of doing this. We will know after MIX10.
 

ExcludeReality

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I don't do photos on a phone, I don't watch videos or listen to music, I don't play games and I don't participate in social networking of any sort. I hate dumbed-down "finger-friendly" interfaces and I loath with a passion flashy animations.

Your one of a kind!

However Steve Ballmer did say "We will continue to invest in Windows Mobile 6.5 but Windows Phone 7 is a new generation." so maybe we will end up with Phone 7 for the plebs and Phone 6.5 for business and geeks.

They just said that to keep the phones selling until they release Windows Phone 7.
Good old HTC will probably make some more WinMo phones, but there will be no future versions of the OS.
I mean, Windows Mobile 7 running beside Windows Phone 7 is bound to cause confusion.
Most developers (that aren't already developing for Android or the iPhone) will probably move onto Windows Phone, causing a greater lack of developers for Windows Mobile.

The geeks of today are all about "finger-friendlyness" and "flashy animations".
In this modern world of technology it's hard to tell who is a geek and who just happens to buy a new phone (or some kind of electronic device).

Like everyone else I have been Googling away to find any scrap of information that seems reliable and the believable consensus seems to be that a version of Silverlight will be the execution environment for applications. This is bad in that it will probably lock out access to the actual OS, so no more P/Invokes to the Win32 API for missing functionality. However bear in mind that Silverlight, stripped of hype, is essentially the Compact Framework running in a sandbox with WPF instead of Windows Forms for the GUI and will most likely be compilable by the C# 4.0 (and VB) compiler coming in VS2010. Silverlight 3 loosened the sandbox limitations and Silverlight 4 loosens them further so Silverlight is getting very close to being a viable replacement for the Compact Framework on which it was originally based. Microsoft is not stupid and knows it must lever its' existing developer base onto the new platform without too much pain so basing development on a version of Silverlight 4 and VS2010 would seem a good way of doing this.

Very interesting stuff.
I never really considered Silverlight as any kind of platform.
More like Microsofts equivalent to Flash that never really took off.
 

agraham

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They just said that to keep the phones selling until they release Windows Phone 7.
Don't forget there is a fairly large and very lucrative industrial/business sector, especially in the US, that has a large investment in custom Windows Mobile based corporate systems that Microsoft will not want to entirely alienate as they are also a huge source of revenue for Windows desktop and Office. The iPAQ 210/214 was aimed directly at this market as an "Enterprise" device. Industrial/military systems is where I come from and what I was/am interested in.
there will be no future versions of the OS.
That's probably true, but there is promised support for another 5 years for WM6.5.
I never really considered Silverlight as any kind of platform. More like Microsofts equivalent to Flash that never really took off.
XNA, the Xbox360 and desktop games platform, and Silverlight, the Web platform, both have their own runtimes based on the Compact Framework CLR. I don't know about how XNA has developed but Silverlight has gone from running only in a Web page to being able to run as a lightweight application on the desktop (apparently) independently of a browser and, in version 4, with full trust. Microsoft talks of three screens and the cloud, TV, PC, Phone and Internet. Silverlight and .NET are the means to seamless transition between them.
 

digitaldon37

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Unless you can can turn off or get behind all the eye-candy rubbish and do real things I see that I am going to hate this phone. I don't do photos on a phone, I don't watch videos or listen to music, I don't play games and I don't participate in social networking of any sort. I hate dumbed-down "finger-friendly" interfaces and I loath with a passion flashy animations that just waste time when I want to navigate somewhere. Unlike Windows Mobile this is obviously squarely aimed at the CONsumer and not the PROsumer like me. However Stebe Ballmer did say "We will continue to invest in Windows Mobile 6.5 but Windows Phone 7 is a new generation." so maybe we will end up with Phone 7 for the plebs and Phone 6.5 for business and geeks. I read somewhere that there are still about 30 new WM6.5 phones yet to be launched and we won't see a Windows 7 phone till November (if then!).

There are many scare-mongering rumours about lack of multi-tasking and not being able to load your own apps that might or might not be true - we won't know until after MIX10 and maybe not the full technical picture even then.

Like everyone else I have been Googling away to find any scrap of information that seems reliable and the believable consensus seems to be that a version of Silverlight will be the execution environment for applications. This is bad in that it will probably lock out access to the actual OS, so no more P/Invokes to the Win32 API for missing functionality. However bear in mind that Silverlight, stripped of hype, is essentially the Compact Framework running in a sandbox with WPF instead of Windows Forms for the GUI and will most likely be compilable by the C# 4.0 (and VB) compiler coming in VS2010. Silverlight 3 loosened the sandbox limitations and Silverlight 4 loosens them further so Silverlight is getting very close to being a viable replacement for the Compact Framework on which it was originally based. Microsoft is not stupid and knows it must lever its' existing developer base onto the new platform without too much pain so basing development on a version of Silverlight 4 and VS2010 would seem a good way of doing this. We will know after MIX10.

I like how Microsoft is moving from an app-centric perspective to content-centric (via "hubs") As an end user, I shouldn't have to know to run Quicken on my PC/PDA sometimes, and a web browser to access online banking other times depending on what I need to look at. Conceptually, I should be able to look at "bank account information" and what happens in the background is irrelevant. The same concept applies to social networking - I don't want to have to remember that some people maintain their current phone/address/status on LinkedIn, others on Facebook, and others don't do any of the above so I keep their info in Pocket Outlook. I want to click on a person's name and have the most recent info, no matter the source.

As a programmer, I'm not good at creating pretty UIs so I'm hoping that with this new direction I can write functionality that runs behind the scenes and either the pretty OS handles the UI for me or that there are tools so that someone more talented in visuals can use the information that my custom program provides. I'm interested to see how this is implemented in WM7.

My guess is that MS is implementing some type of message queues that the presentation layer monitors and acts upon, and that programs will still be able to be written to run on a new version of compact framework.
 

ExcludeReality

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agraham

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What is occurring is a highly choreographed incremental release of the details an entirely consumer based "media" product that has no relation with computing as I know it. Unless Microsoft has an enterprise capability that it is reserving for exposure until later after the hype has faded I am afaid that this platform holds no interest for me whatsoever. I have no doubt that it is a good product for its' intended market and will probably revive Microsoft in the mass phone market but it is'nt me!

Why ask Ariel - It's Erel's product :confused:
 

digitaldon37

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What is occurring is a highly choreographed incremental release of the details an entirely consumer based "media" product that has no relation with computing as I know it. Unless Microsoft has an enterprise capability that it is reserving for exposure until later after the hype has faded I am afaid that this platform holds no interest for me whatsoever. I have no doubt that it is a good product for its' intended market and will probably revive Microsoft in the mass phone market but it is'nt me!

Why ask Ariel - It's Erel's product :confused:

oops. meant Erel - I was typing that up quickly as I was packing to leave work.

What do you consider as enterprise features that WM7 won't be able to do?
 

agraham

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Yes, I was watching Mix10 live and I looked at the developer tools before they were announced. The link Windows Phone for Developers | Windows Phone: Developer Home was where the 6.5 tools were and morphed to WP7 early. They are exactly what was expected from all the previous hints. There is nothing really new but it does make cross-platform development possible which is probably a good thing. The problem for me is that the platform is aimed squarely at implementing lightweight media applications which don't interest me at all.

XNA is purely for games, and maybe a few other specialist applications. It provides a Calc/Draw loop for repetitive execution of timed game code. XNA does not stand alone but is a structure within .NET for writing game loops. XNA apps have the same (limited) access to the platform facilities as Silverlight apps.

Silverlight is effectively the replacement for the Compact Framework but using a subset of WPF instead of Windows Forms. In itself not too bad but the problem is that Silverlight applications run in a security sandbox. Fair enough as they are meant to be downloaded from the "cloud". The problem is that they lock the programmer out of interacting with the platform apart from the APIs that are made available in .NET. I've looked at Silverlight 3 and 4 beta and they are very restrictive. For example you don't have access to the full device file system, only to a private folder which is isolated from other apps. You won't be able to get at the Registry. You can't have a local database like SQLite. You can't interact with other applications. You won't be able to P/Invoke the native APIs where some facility you want is only avalable there, in fact, unlike WM6 they probably won't be documented in WP7. Also the actual WP7 platform is limited in its' user interaction as there is no stylus and the touch screens will be capacitive, which are not high precision devices unlike resistive ones. So even though Silverlight does support ink for mouse or stylus equipped PC or tablet platforms, on WP7 you will not be able to implement precision user interaction like capturing handwriting nor implement a CAD style or drawing application nor write an accurate photo retouching app because of the hardware limitations. The entire orientation is towards web based media and games applications.

I can't believe that Microsoft doesn't have an on-going strategy for enterprise applications like interfacing custom hardware, warehouse data collection or order taking. Whatever that strategy is, assuming they are not just going to abandon that market sector, I can't see it being based on WP7.
 

mjcoon

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I can't believe that Microsoft doesn't have an on-going strategy for enterprise applications like interfacing custom hardware, warehouse data collection or order taking. Whatever that strategy is, assuming they are not just going to abandon that market sector, I can't see it being based on WP7.

Or having a free development environment?

Mike.
 

agraham

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Reading more stuff its getting more and more restricted. It looks like users will not be able to load their own apps but will need to download them from the app store. Developers will be able to load apps onto a real phone for testing but it will be done via VS2010 and will need a specially registered phone and apps will need to be security signed and tested by Microsoft before being available.

Quote
"To facilitate easier testing, developers will be able to register one or more Windows Phones as development devices, thereby allowing them to run an application during development and prior to it being digitally signed during the Windows Phone Marketplace application submission and provisioning process."

and
"For applications to run on a Windows Phone, a valid license that is issued by the Windows Phone Marketplace must be present on the phone. This means that even if a technically savvy consumer figures out how to circumvent the Windows Phone Marketplace and get an application onto their phone in some other way, it will not run without a valid license, thereby helping to protect the fruits of the developer’s labor."

see http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ff402533(VS.92).aspx

This whole platform sucks big time :(
 
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ExcludeReality

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It's quite obvious that WP7 will be another iPhone gimmick.
While that might hurt the developers it will get mainstream consumers interested. Microsoft is restricting the platform to get rid of hackers and cracker that love WinMo, and attrackt more serious developers. You can't please them all
 
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