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B4xers who haven't tried game programming yet: Why?
- Thread starter fredo
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I love game developing, but it does indeed consume a lot of time and effort.
As a gamer myself, I stay away from anything that tries to milk me for my money with loot boxes or surprise crates.
I'd rather pay 10$ for a full game with proper controls, than play the "freemium" crap that populates the Google Play store.
I would like to create games for gamers. Something meaningful, fun and addictive created out of passion for the art, not for the money.
That said, I'll jump right back when @Erel finally releases B4Playstation.
As a gamer myself, I stay away from anything that tries to milk me for my money with loot boxes or surprise crates.
I'd rather pay 10$ for a full game with proper controls, than play the "freemium" crap that populates the Google Play store.
I would like to create games for gamers. Something meaningful, fun and addictive created out of passion for the art, not for the money.
That said, I'll jump right back when @Erel finally releases B4Playstation.
Hi Guys,
I guess I should gave my opinion on this. This is just my thoughts and not what I think all B4X's should do.
I have 9 of my own games on the Play store, all written using B4A and the LibGDX library.
My most popular games by far have been the space invaders clones I wrote. The most popular one currently has 58,000 active installs, but only around 500 daily players (according to firebase analytics). I make 80% of my income from this game then 19% from the Space invaders Deluxe game (which was just a better looking version with new weapons). 1% of my income comes from the other 8 games, as they just don't get the download numbers.
My income is from Admob adverts, the full screen one's make the best income.
I do offer an in-app purchase to remove ads on my most popular game "Invaders", but out of 10,000 downloads a month, only 7 players pay for this.
I'm bad at graphics, so I buy my graphics at Graphicriver.net they're pretty cheap and much better than trying to draw stuff myself.
My current projects are further remakes of old classic arcade games.
I guess I should gave my opinion on this. This is just my thoughts and not what I think all B4X's should do.
I have 9 of my own games on the Play store, all written using B4A and the LibGDX library.
My most popular games by far have been the space invaders clones I wrote. The most popular one currently has 58,000 active installs, but only around 500 daily players (according to firebase analytics). I make 80% of my income from this game then 19% from the Space invaders Deluxe game (which was just a better looking version with new weapons). 1% of my income comes from the other 8 games, as they just don't get the download numbers.
My income is from Admob adverts, the full screen one's make the best income.
I do offer an in-app purchase to remove ads on my most popular game "Invaders", but out of 10,000 downloads a month, only 7 players pay for this.
I'm bad at graphics, so I buy my graphics at Graphicriver.net they're pretty cheap and much better than trying to draw stuff myself.
My current projects are further remakes of old classic arcade games.
To summarize my opinion:
- I like working with B4A and LibGDX
- I'm ok with having Android as the target OS
- I don't like the Android gaming ecosystem
- I don't like the lack of physical controls
- I don't expect to make any money
Basically:
- I would spend more time in Android game development if the ecosystem was more "gamer-friendly".
- I like working with B4A and LibGDX
- I'm ok with having Android as the target OS
- I don't like the Android gaming ecosystem
- I don't like the lack of physical controls
- I don't expect to make any money
Basically:
- I would spend more time in Android game development if the ecosystem was more "gamer-friendly".
@wonder It's very easy to use bluetooth controllers with LibGDX and B4A, my space invaders games all support game pads, the biggest issue with this is Google don't really push gamepad support as part of Android, so most phone users don't even know they can use gamepads.
The eco system is a problem, it's very difficult to get noticed due to the top 5 publishers dominating the charts, and since most players just look at the the charts to pick a game, then it's a never ending circle that new devs can't really break into without a lot of money.
I got lucky, but I think it's also what type of game you pick, you could write a minesweeper game and make a lot more money than a role playing game you spent three years on, simply because mine sweeper games are more popular in general.
The eco system is a problem, it's very difficult to get noticed due to the top 5 publishers dominating the charts, and since most players just look at the the charts to pick a game, then it's a never ending circle that new devs can't really break into without a lot of money.
I got lucky, but I think it's also what type of game you pick, you could write a minesweeper game and make a lot more money than a role playing game you spent three years on, simply because mine sweeper games are more popular in general.
You have started really awesome projects like your knight game and the street fighter kind game. It is realy sad that you dont complete them. You can count on me to be your first full version costumer
so keep working on the wonder!
Thanks guys for all the answers.
So there seem to be three camps:
a) Those who do not want, cannot or may not.
b) Those who are interested but cannot yet work productively because of learning obstacles.
c) Those who have understood how to implement ideas and thus have results to show in the store.
The realisation of financial returns seems to depend on an additional competence: understanding and implementing the effective use of social marketing.
From this I conclude that it might be most profitable to create and market better tutorials for X2/LibGDX and for social marketing.
I now have a better idea of whether and why I should continue to get involved in game development.
Despite a 30 year old background as a sw developer, it is somehow difficult for me to get used to the Box2D world.
But since I had promised a relatively young family member to put his game idea into practice carelessly, I will have to endure the cognitive dissonances for better or for worse.
So there seem to be three camps:
a) Those who do not want, cannot or may not.
b) Those who are interested but cannot yet work productively because of learning obstacles.
c) Those who have understood how to implement ideas and thus have results to show in the store.
The realisation of financial returns seems to depend on an additional competence: understanding and implementing the effective use of social marketing.
From this I conclude that it might be most profitable to create and market better tutorials for X2/LibGDX and for social marketing.
I now have a better idea of whether and why I should continue to get involved in game development.
Despite a 30 year old background as a sw developer, it is somehow difficult for me to get used to the Box2D world.
But since I had promised a relatively young family member to put his game idea into practice carelessly, I will have to endure the cognitive dissonances for better or for worse.
Hi! I completely agree with you, the idea of an engine controlling my game objects instead of my own code feels strange to me, so I keep my physics simple and write it myself. Which is fine for older games. I have a cannon fodder game in the works, which I know physics would work well with, but the original didn't need a physics engine so I think I'll be fine with my own simple maths.
Tutorials would be a great thing to write (or video for youtube), this helped keep me motivated with Blitz Basic back in the day (10 years ago), and got me quite a few followers on youtube.
It all depends on what games you/he want to create. There are people on this forum that earn a lot with non-Box2D games aswell.
I'm creating a game without using LibGDX and I don't feel like it's keeping me from making a good game, and most especially, an original one.
I don't care if I don't make money out of it, I just want to play the game that I'm dreaming about.
However I do have a big hurdle : graphics. I need to find a good artist for character portraits and make beautiful terrain for my hex tiles Do you guys have any recommendation of a website where I can hire digital artists at non-ridiculous price ? I recognize that drawing is time-consuming but in the end, I just can't afford to pay 100$US per character, neither 50$US.
I don't care if I don't make money out of it, I just want to play the game that I'm dreaming about.
However I do have a big hurdle : graphics. I need to find a good artist for character portraits and make beautiful terrain for my hex tiles
Do you guys have any recommendation of a website where I can hire digital artists at non-ridiculous price ? I recognize that drawing is time-consuming but in the end, I just can't afford to pay 100$US per character, neither 50$US.
something like these? https://graphicriver.net/item/25-character-avatars/20998003
Maybe contact the artist for a quote. But you may find $50 per portrait is too low as I'd imagine it would take an hour per portrait. So you'll need to either buy pre made packs like the one referenced, or go for much simpler graphics.
The first program I ever released to the PlayStore was a (simple) game : Pairs4Android, which was a port from my Pairs4Ppc game.
Creating a game is a completly different challenge from a (simple or even complex) app.
Even if hundreds of similar apps exist, yours has a chance to really stand out, being it through price, features, support, etc, thus making it Worth your time and effort.
A game, is a beast on its own… If it exists, you better stand out, of your chances are null, if it doesn't exist, it better be really interesting, or your chances are null, If you manage to stand out, you better keep standing out, or your chances quicly become null, If you manage to make it interesting, you better manage to keep it interesting… You get the Idea...
Aside from Time, the major investment in game creation is marketing… You may have the best game ever, but if you Don't market it… Also, games tend to have short version life cicles, demanding for constant updates...
I Simply Don't have the time, the skills nor the money to strive in the Game making industry
Creating a game is a completly different challenge from a (simple or even complex) app.
Even if hundreds of similar apps exist, yours has a chance to really stand out, being it through price, features, support, etc, thus making it Worth your time and effort.
A game, is a beast on its own… If it exists, you better stand out, of your chances are null, if it doesn't exist, it better be really interesting, or your chances are null, If you manage to stand out, you better keep standing out, or your chances quicly become null, If you manage to make it interesting, you better manage to keep it interesting… You get the Idea...
Aside from Time, the major investment in game creation is marketing… You may have the best game ever, but if you Don't market it… Also, games tend to have short version life cicles, demanding for constant updates...
I Simply Don't have the time, the skills nor the money to strive in the Game making industry
i need to add something to this discussion.
there are several game types. there are the games that you make in 2-3 days just to upload something to the store. there are mind games that take more time to make but have very good potential (in my opinion) and there is the awesome game where you invest a lot of time but cannot compete with all those 3d games out there.
so from my experience don't waste your time on games that take you 2-3 days to complete and also not on games that take you 1 year to complete. I think people more like to play a game that challenges their minds. so nice puzzle game or mind games could do well. I do prefer to make arcade games but I take in count that I won't do any profit from them I just enjoy learning new stuff and trying new frameworks. but I do have some mind games in my list that I would like to make (finish)
there are several game types. there are the games that you make in 2-3 days just to upload something to the store. there are mind games that take more time to make but have very good potential (in my opinion) and there is the awesome game where you invest a lot of time but cannot compete with all those 3d games out there.
so from my experience don't waste your time on games that take you 2-3 days to complete and also not on games that take you 1 year to complete. I think people more like to play a game that challenges their minds. so nice puzzle game or mind games could do well. I do prefer to make arcade games but I take in count that I won't do any profit from them I just enjoy learning new stuff and trying new frameworks. but I do have some mind games in my list that I would like to make (finish)
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Yes indeed, you're right on point. Google doesn't promote Android as a "serious" gaming platform. My game code always supports gamepads, it's one of the first things I do, but people are not really aware of it. It's really sad because, an Android phone is more powerful than a Playstation2 and we had AMAZING games on that platform!
GTA, God of War, Final Fantasy, Tekken, Grand Turismo 4, only to name a few...
I fully agree that I should try to finish some of my projects. I guess what blocks me the most is creativity in terms of game design (once the code is done).You have started really awesome projects like your knight game and the street fighter kind game. It is realy sad that you dont complete them. You can count on me to be your first full version costumer
Regarding the fighting game, the code is a monstrosity, as I mentioned many times before. Written 5 years ago, impossible to understand and impossible to maintain.
I'm happy to provide the source code and assets to anyone who asks me for it.
That said, I'm working on my manga reader project, using LibGDX and even writing my own shaders.
It's not really game design, mas I'm using the tools and expertise I acquired over the years working with B4X, so yeah at least I have that going on for me...
I'm making my first game with b4a.
I'm just hobbyist... Not easy to finish a game! The game is playable now, IA playing is good... but huge problem with assets!
I'm not good at design at all, buying assets is not a option also for me...
So... i'll continue until I finish it with my pics or free one...
When I have time, may be I'll learn use of Game engines like the excellent libGdx / X2.
For now, I did it with completly ImageViews... May be that cause some lags when It opens or closes Activities ... With all effort to make it running, I don't have courage to restart coding it with x2 or libGdx... :/
A little screenshots (a Fanorona board game)
![shot_2019-07-09_11-22-43[1].png](https://www.b4x.com/android/forum/attachments/shot_2019-07-09_11-22-43-1-png.82919/ "shot_2019-07-09_11-22-43[1].png")
![shot_2019-06-23_06-20-29[1].png](https://www.b4x.com/android/forum/attachments/shot_2019-06-23_06-20-29-1-png.82920/ "shot_2019-06-23_06-20-29[1].png")
I'm just hobbyist... Not easy to finish a game! The game is playable now, IA playing is good... but huge problem with assets!
I'm not good at design at all, buying assets is not a option also for me...
So... i'll continue until I finish it with my pics or free one...
When I have time, may be I'll learn use of Game engines like the excellent libGdx / X2.
For now, I did it with completly ImageViews... May be that cause some lags when It opens or closes Activities ... With all effort to make it running, I don't have courage to restart coding it with x2 or libGdx... :/
A little screenshots (a Fanorona board game)
Picture : https://drive.google.com/file/d/1EHJt1QlNPKFTWgGomVHG9vMEfkdSUV4K/view?usp=sharing
Character images is temporary, I borrowed them from digital artists for testing purposes and I'm the only one testing.
Do you guys know if I can share that kind of content without asking them permission ? In the context that this is temporary and non-usable by anyone except me.
Character images is temporary, I borrowed them from digital artists for testing purposes and I'm the only one testing.
Do you guys know if I can share that kind of content without asking them permission ? In the context that this is temporary and non-usable by anyone except me.
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Looks really nice