Basic4PPC vs Visual Studio

Discussion in 'Questions (Windows Mobile)' started by J12345T, Jun 27, 2007.

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  1. J12345T

    J12345T Member Licensed User

    Hello All,

    I'm new to software development but have downloaded and experimented with the trial version of Basic4PPC. I like the interface and language however being completely new to this I have nothing to compare it to. Before I spend the money to purchase the full version is there anyone out there who could tell me if/why Basic4PPC is better than MS Visual Studio?

    Many thanks,

    JT.
     
  2. RandomCoder

    RandomCoder Well-Known Member Licensed User

    You won't get support from Microsoft like you get from Erel :sign0188:
    You can program directly on the device :)

    Look at the articles in our forum, I'm sure you'll soon come to realise that we think B4PPC is great :cool: and the language is one of the most simple I've come across.
    I personally like not having to define variables before they are used and the fact that variables are dynamic i.e. you can use them as a number or a string without having to change anything.

    Regards,
    RandomCoder
     
  3. BjornF

    BjornF Active Member Licensed User

    I agree with RandomCoder, the support both from Erel and from everyone else on the forum certainly makes life easier when you run into problems (which you always will ;)).

    One of the main things with Basic4ppc which I enjoy is that it doesn't make prgramming more complicated than it needs to be. In most cases you end up with one exe file (unless you use the dll's of course) and that is it. You just copy and paste it to your computer or ppc of choice and away you go. The fact that the language and dll's get upgraded at such a high rate is also very nice.

    E.g. Visual basic certainly offers more overall alternatives but that also makes life more complicated. Try writing a small database program with Visual Basic and then do the same with Basic4ppc and you will see what I mean.

    Good luck with your choice / Björn
     
  4. conf

    conf Member

    I love this language because it's simple and everyone in this forum are very kind :)
     
  5. dzt

    dzt Active Member Licensed User

  6. giannimaione

    giannimaione Well-Known Member Licensed User

    the simplest solution is often the best solution!

    Basic4ppc is simplest solution!

    Gianni
     
  7. Cableguy

    Cableguy Expert Licensed User

    Keep also In mind that B4PPC is a work in progress that in ervery new release takes a huge leap foward, also the ability to run the same app both in Device and In desktop, without major changes....
     
  8. Scubaticus

    Scubaticus Active Member Licensed User

    Anyone experience with Lazerus & Free Pascal?
    You can compile to different platforms (Darwin,FreeBSD,Linux,NetBSD,OpenBSD,Solaris,Win32,Win64,WinCE) and target processors (arm,i386,m86k,powerpc,sparc,x86-64) but don't need .net

    Free Pascal is 100% compatible with Turbo pascal and almost 100% with Delphi and it's open source so it's free.

    I do like B4PPC (I bought it), but I'm missing just all the nice things Pascal offers me and I'm getting :sign0137: of the buggy B4pcc editor which is not getting any faster with my >2000 sourcelines of code

    While looking around for a more stable development environment I ran into Lazerus.


    Scub
     
  9. Erel

    Erel Administrator Staff Member Licensed User

    I'm sorry to hear that.
    However, if you like you can write your code in any other editor.
    Just add it to your project as a code file.
     
  10. Scubaticus

    Scubaticus Active Member Licensed User

    Well, you shouldn't as there are a lot of frustrating bugs in the editor (V5) like losing source code, cursor going mad or jumping to locations you don't want, Copy-Paste is not working the way it shoud. I never had to write a procedure to save my source just to be sure I won't loose it (again).

    For small apps this is not a problem, but for bigger projects it is no fun anymore as you are concentrated on a part of code and after stopping the debuger you have to search for that spot again. Or loosing all the breakpoints carefully set, just while the compiler found an error...

    I'll try that, but there are also good things in the editor like code completion (well sort of) and the list of vars.

    No offense to you Erel because I still think you accomplished a hell of a job which will not get easier as B4PPC continues to develop.

    It has also to do with programming experience. As a programmer for over 20 years I'm a little bit spoiled I guess. For small projects I'll still use B4PPC but for the bigger onces I'll probably switch to Lazerus.

    Scub
     
  11. dzt

    dzt Active Member Licensed User

    I agree about the buggy editor and also I am aware of Lazarus and a lot of other development environments.

    I first heared about B4PPC when I typed "Rapid Application Development for Windows Mobile" (or something similar...) in Google.
    And I think it is the best such a tool as know.

    I like very much the ability to build .NET libraries to extend it's functionality.

    I think that with all of it's disadvantages, still remains a fair RAD tool for Windows Mobile (or everything they called) devices.

    Of course and I have a huge wishlist and an even bigger list with suggestions.
    But at least for now, I'll stay with B4PPC.

    More thoughts in the near future...

    Regards
     
  12. agraham

    agraham Expert Licensed User

    If you are new to software development, and don't have acess to a friendly geek then do NOT buy Visual Studio. If you want to try the MS way then download Visual Basic Express from Microsoft which is free and will not overwhelm you like the full Visual Studio most assuredly will if you have no previous experience. Even VB Express will be daunting to a newbie and the decider may be that it cannot target devices.

    The main strength of B4PPC is that you can actually program for and on your device, you need Visual Studio 2005 Professional to do this as the Standard editions only target the desktop.The main weakness of B4PPC is that it seems to be an interpreted environment (even the "compiled" exes) and I've measured it several thousand times slower than fully compiled VB.NET for tight FOR.. NEXT loops. This doesn't matter for user interface designs where the bulk of the work is done by the .NET framework but does if you want to manipulate a lot of data. I've got VS2005 Professional and have just bought B4PPC - they do different things.

    Buy B4PPC, its cheap enough, and play with that to see if you've got any feel for object-oriented event style programming. Make your mind up then.
     
  13. Scubaticus

    Scubaticus Active Member Licensed User

    Object oriented programming (OOP) in B4PPC? Wish that was true!


    Scub.
     
  14. Erel

    Erel Administrator Staff Member Licensed User

    Scubaticus,
    This is a forum for Basic4ppc users.
    At least 98% of the users are very happy with Basic4ppc.
    Basic4ppc is not OOP language (and we never claimed it is).
    We have a money back guarantee policy.
    As I see from your attitude you are not satisfied with our product.
    I have no problems with it. Please send me an email and you will get your refund.
    But there is no place in this forum for such messages.
     
  15. agraham

    agraham Expert Licensed User

    Come on! For a newbie it's at least an introduction to objects, properties, methods and the dot.notation which other low-end languages tend not have.

    EDIT: Oops, sorry again Erel, didn't mean to imply B4PPC was low-end. Takes foot out of mouth!
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2007
  16. Scubaticus

    Scubaticus Active Member Licensed User

    Which I am!
    I was just quoting from agraham. I do know B4PPC is not OOP and a wish B4PPC will be oop will never come from me. This thread was about someone asking comparison with Visual Studio so my question about experiences with other products was not that strange in my opinion (but who am I)

    I have no plans to stop using B4PPC. If you can't take the criticism (by just throwing some bugs) you shouldn't have start the B4PPC project in the first place.

    It is NOT my intention to bring down B4PPC. I'm sure it will evolve and all the bugs will be fixed eventually. But my goal is to develop a commercial app with tons of options for a relative small group and with such plans in mind I'm asking myself if B4PPC is the right product to do so.

    I'm also very sure some members have experience with other products and hoped for some useful reactions about lazerus.

    So please, don't overreact.

    Said that, I'll keep my post to B4PPC.

    Scub
     
  17. rmh

    rmh Member Licensed User

    As someone who has only being using it for a week or so, basic4ppc is a bargain considering the speed it gets you going on a project.
     
  18. bdiscount

    bdiscount Active Member Licensed User

    I have developed in masm,c, c++, VB, VC for years and now that I'm getting old find B4ppc refreshingly easy and less comlplcated. As for the editor I have not seen any of the problems you state. Are you sure there is nothing running in the background that would cause them.
    I would like to be able to save part of the program to a text file to add, but all we can do is hope. I'm sure Erel is busy with B4PPC
     
  19. specci48

    specci48 Well-Known Member Licensed User

    You can already do that! :sign0060:
    Save your code sniplets as normal text files add them to the main project with "Tools >> Components >> Add Code"
    With this feature you can add different code for the device and the desktop version, too.

    I have done this, because it's true that editing "large" projects makes the IDE come very slow ... :( But I never missed any code or breakpoints ...

    All in all I'm very pleased with Basic4ppc. Nice, small, easy to learn, easy to use, cheap, marvellous support, great forum community ... ok I stop here because this post won't end if I mention all advantages of basic4ppc.

    Cheers
    specci48
     
  20. Put Claude

    Put Claude Active Member Licensed User

    bdiscount,
    I did the same , and completely agree with your comment, grow up with borland and so on... Do mobile in D_embedded Visual C++ 4.0, and try a lot of others.
    I just try that Lazarus-thing... they made it a complete gadget-show... and that is not what I (and mobile-beginners) need any more...
    Never had a development-thing that I downloaded, and directly from some thoughts made a program for my GPS with it, that I could test directly on my desktop and my pocket. The same result in Visual take me days on overhead and so on...
    Erel, your work is superbe and very rational, never had a nicer thing to work with. AND... I never get into the weeds with B4PPC.
    Put Claude Belgium
     
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