Condolences to our French fellow members.

Beja

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"I think that the Muslim terrorists who really act in the name of their Religion are very few:"

You are right but the problem they are well-funded and highly organized.. but the law of nature prohibits that a whole group or nation can be evil. This is impossible.. on the other hand, the Quran contains highly humane values, if Muslims discovered these values and made then the valid rules, then they can claim their natural place among civilized nations.
 

LucaMs

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that freedom of speech will not be touched by the event
Where is it (freedom of speech)?

I can not say: "... God!"

Also, just for example, our italian Costitutions says:


Art. 3


Tutti i cittadini hanno pari dignità sociale e sono eguali davanti alla legge, senza distinzione di sesso, di razza, di lingua, di religione, di opinioni politiche, di condizioni personali e sociali.


È compito della Repubblica rimuovere gli ostacoli di ordine economico e sociale, che, limitando di fatto la libertà e l'eguaglianza dei cittadini, impediscono il pieno sviluppo della persona umana e l'effettiva partecipazione di tutti i lavoratori all'organizzazione politica, economica e sociale del Paese.


Art. 3

All citizens have equal social dignity and are equal to the law, without distinction of sex, race, language, religion, political opinion, personal and social conditions.

It is the duty of the Republic to remove obstacles to economic and social nature which constrain the freedom and equality of citizens, prevent the full development of the human person and the effective participation of all workers in the political, economic and social of the country.


Well, in every classroom of every Italian school there is a crucifix hanging!
Where is the freedom of religion?

(personally I think that Buddha, Muhammad, Jesus, Allah, Zeus, Vishnu, Donald Duck... are slightly at odds with each other, so I am an atheist - not only for this reason, of course).


Long live freedom of expression (which does not exist!)
 
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LucaMs

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they can claim their natural place among civilized nations.
What are the civilized nations?

Without even listening to the UN, often American, British, FRENCH (and other) begin bombing "randomly"! Are these civilized nations?

Perhaps we see only what someone wants us to see!
 
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Beja

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Not talking about governments..
Humanity achievements in tolerance, education, cooperation, and respect for others' freedoms, can't be resampled or reduced to some government actions.
 

ilan

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If the discussion is healthy and objective, then I think people can take the fact that they come from different corners of the world, to their advantage.. there is a real problem facing humanity on this planet today and hiding our head in the sand wouldn't do good.
Put the mind in front and the self behind and the discussion will be fruitful.
What we are witnessing is a true clash of civilizations.. some 30 or 40 years ago, nations were safe and living relatively high level of peace.. in 1980 I walked with my guest
who was leaving the country, to the gate of international departure (the bridge to the plane) at JFK Airport. I had a Yashica camera and the security guard just looked through the lens and gave it back to me. Today you can't even reach the check-in hall without a valid ticket.
The reason is that communications and transportation facilities were very limited and nations (with their cultures) were in isolated islands. Now this Berlin Wall has fallen and people are able to move around so easily.. but moving only with their bodies and leaving their minds and hearts back home.. Now the clash starts and the guy on the video above who said that they will not integrate into the society and will preserve their identity, perfectly represent this problem. If a trans-planted organ couldn't integrate with the host body then the host body will reject it.. this law applies to individuals as well.. If you can't integrate then go back home.. simply like that.
This being said, I think all major three religions are the similar, may be Christianity is a little different.. Islam is basically built on Judaism, stoning for adultery, eye for eye and tooth for tooth, position of women (with varied degree).. may the difference is that Judaism don't kill to make people Jews because you can't be a Jew unless you are born into it. Spreading Islam by force is well documented, both in the Quran and in practice, some Muslims say Jihad was used for defense but I can hardly understand someone conquers Spain (in another continent) to defend himself. But if one reads texts from other religions then he will find similar commands to deal with peoples not in their religion.. except Christianity. The Jews were the first to abrogate (practically) any reference to violence against others. Muslims yet to follow.. in the Christians case who committed atrocities against other nations, they did that in clear defiance of Jesus teachings, when Muslims did the same in accordance with their teachings.
There are Muslim schools of thought today promoting the renewal of Islam to make all laws in accordance with today's universal standards of human rights and individual freedoms, by abrogating some of the Sharia Islamic laws and invoking Quranic text that promote equality and justice to all mankind. this means reviewing school textbooks
and missionary strategies.

p.s.
Not edited - pardon typos
i agree with what you wrote but not all match with the true..
first judaism and islam is different in much ways... (btw chrstianity is also based on the judaism, the bible (first testament) is the torah)

the different is that the judaism is not what you read in the torah (bible), jews get the written torah with the unwritten torah that explain the written torah
and both religion islam and christian that is based on the torah (bible) are only based on the written bible

for example "eye for eye, tooth for tooth" in the jewdaism it does not mean that if someone take your eye you have the right to take his, the explaination of this sentense mean that he must pay you for the damage he did to you.. but because the other religion just understand what its written they took it to the opposite side..

(רש"י: עין תחת עין - סימא עין חברו נותן לו דמי עינו = Rashi: an eye for an eye - eye blinded his friend gives him eye fees...)

and there are many more misunderstanding of the torah...

like stoning, its correct that its written that if a JEW (only jew) is not holding shabbat he must be stoned (written torah) but in reallity its almost impossible to perform this punishment, there are to much conditions that need to be before that guy may be stoned (and this is only explained in the unwritten torah)

both religion (islam and cristianity) admit that the torah was given to the jewish people and than they say that because jews didnot hold the torah god punished them and choose an other nation (jesus and muhamed)

and they build there religion on the written torah and understood it very wrong, the christian killed lot of jews, black people, homosexuall, etc... (and in very painfull ways... )

***

second thing that was wrong what you wrote, "..because you can't be a Jew unless you are born into it.."
this is not true everybody can become a jew , but to become a jew its not enough to say one sentense 3 time.. its more complex and take long time (to proove that you really want and also will hold all mitzwot in the torah)

jewdaism also dont say that if you are not a jew you will burn in hell, this is not true, every person can get to paradise the difference is because jews accepted the torah they have 613 mitzwot but not jews have only 7 thats the different...

and again no one will force a non jew to do anything it's only for his knowledge...
 
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Cableguy

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Guys... Please do refrain. This was to be a thread to show our simpthy towards the victims... If you don't agree with this topic objective please keep your opinions to yourself.

As pointed, this is "chitchat" but as proved, it can turn out to be a very hot discussion, which we must avoid.

There are some valid point being expressed here, but deriding from the topic.
 

ilan

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Guys... Please do refrain. This was to be a thread to show our simpthy towards the victims... If you don't agree with this topic objective please keep your opinions to yourself.

As pointed, this is "chitchat" but as proved, it can turn out to be a very hot discussion, which we must avoid.

There are some valid point being expressed here, but deriding from the topic.
what is this ???

...keep your opinions to yourself...

everybody have the right to tell what he think this is the freedom of speech, a forum is also a public place if you dont like it you can unwatch this thread.
we all here are adults and we respect each other, no one here hate muslems, jews, christians, black or white
but if someone say something that other dont think the same, he may say his opinion you cannot shut us up...

if we would listen to each other we could learn from each other and maybe change our minds... instead of bury our heads in the sand and keep our opinions for ourself...
 

lemonisdead

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Your post included a semi-pornographic image. This is not appropriate for this forum.
OK, it's YOUR forum.
But I don't understand a girl in underwear as semi-pornographic. So this lets me think about the fact that international people won't ever not been able to understand what really happened in France.

Charlie's cartoons were somehow more powerful compared to a girl in underwear :)

Letting the thread for others. Thanks for your message Erel. Peace
 

Cableguy

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what is this ???

...keep your opinions to yourself...

everybody have the right to tell what he think this is the freedom of speech, a forum is also a public place if you dont like it you can unwatch this thread.
we all here are adults and we respect each other, no one here hate muslems, jews, christians, black or white
but if someone say something that other dont think the same, he may say his opinion you cannot shut us up...

if we would listen to each other we could learn from each other and maybe change our minds... instead of bury our heads in the sand and keep our opinions for ourself...
ilan, I may have wrongly chosen my phrasing... everybody has the right to their opinion, and of course, of expressing it.
Still, this thread is not the place to express some type of opinions. as I said, this was intented, as the title clearly express it, as a condoleance expression thread. not to discuss why, how or who is responsable for these acts.
this is NOT to be a thread to discuss religion, ideology, politic beliefs.

I have mine, and I am not bringing them to discussion here. Yes, we are all adults here, and we are one of the most tolerant comunities I ever been a part of. But theses type of issues bring out the most passionate discussions, and even adults can easily misphrase and start a small words WW3.
 

ilan

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ilan, I may have wrongly chosen my phrasing... everybody has the right to their opinion, and of course, of expressing it.
Still, this thread is not the place to express some type of opinions. as I said, this was intented, as the title clearly express it, as a condoleance expression thread. not to discuss why, how or who is responsable for these acts.
this is NOT to be a thread to discuss religion, ideology, politic beliefs.

I have mine, and I am not bringing them to discussion here. Yes, we are all adults here, and we are one of the most tolerant comunities I ever been a part of. But theses type of issues bring out the most passionate discussions, and even adults can easily misphrase and start a small words WW3.
ok, as a jew and a human i am very sorry for all the victums in french, its very heartbreaking to see how they killed this policeman that only tried to protect citizens, without think of his children and wife when they will get the painfull msg about his death and i am very sad about the people in the kosher market that were killed only because they are jews (it doesnot matter if they are religios or not they were jews and that was enought to kill them)

the only think i hope, that this was the last killing (but i know it was not)... :(
 

Beja

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Luca,
Your constitution is very humane and advanced.. thanks for sharing.. I hope I find time to study it in more depth.
Is there any link for English version online?
 

LucaMs

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But I don't understand a girl in underwear as semi-pornographic
in the '30 mid-shin was considered pornographic.

Someone considers you naked even today, if you do not wear the Burka!

Warning: do not go on the Italian beaches (and not only Italian) and especially do not bring children: if they see two boobs they could remember which was their first drink.
 

LucaMs

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Is there any link for English version online?
I don't know. That was our translation, of my friend Google Translator and mine :D


[P.S. The Italian constitution contains also many other good things, but they are not respected at all]
 
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Beja

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But I don't understand a girl in underwear as semi-pornographic
He deleted it not because it was pornographic, but because it looked a terrorist in combat gear :)

Please continue your thoughtful contribution..
 
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