Erel B4X founder Staff member Licensed User Longtime User Nov 5, 2024 #1 A new search engine is now running on the forum. It is quite sophisticated and is based on a large language model. More information here: https://github.com/stanford-futuredata/ColBERT The language model allows the engine to better "understand" the query and not just find the specific terms. This is not ChatGPT nor Google, but based on my tests it provides better results than the previous search engine, especially for longer queries. I've also tuned it a bit differently and made it less focused on tutorials. The previous search engine, which was quite good and served us well, is still there and will be used in case of failures. Feedback is welcome. This is the first version and I'm sure that there are many ways to further improve it. You can see whether it is the new search engine running with the small label at the bottom.
A new search engine is now running on the forum. It is quite sophisticated and is based on a large language model. More information here: https://github.com/stanford-futuredata/ColBERT The language model allows the engine to better "understand" the query and not just find the specific terms. This is not ChatGPT nor Google, but based on my tests it provides better results than the previous search engine, especially for longer queries. I've also tuned it a bit differently and made it less focused on tutorials. The previous search engine, which was quite good and served us well, is still there and will be used in case of failures. Feedback is welcome. This is the first version and I'm sure that there are many ways to further improve it. You can see whether it is the new search engine running with the small label at the bottom.
LucaMs Expert Licensed User Longtime User Nov 5, 2024 #2 I had nothing to search for, I tried almost randomly. The result seems very good to me, although I can't compare it to the base engine.
I had nothing to search for, I tried almost randomly. The result seems very good to me, although I can't compare it to the base engine.
JohnC Expert Licensed User Longtime User Nov 5, 2024 #3 Since this new search engine now allows us to type in a longer query and not just short terms, would it be possible to add maybe a second magnifier lens icon next to the current magnifier lens icon with maybe a "+" symbol added to it so its visually different and allow us to click on it and it will open up an advanced search window where the query textbox is much bigger so we can see our full prompt instead of that tiny textbox in the forum header.
Since this new search engine now allows us to type in a longer query and not just short terms, would it be possible to add maybe a second magnifier lens icon next to the current magnifier lens icon with maybe a "+" symbol added to it so its visually different and allow us to click on it and it will open up an advanced search window where the query textbox is much bigger so we can see our full prompt instead of that tiny textbox in the forum header.
Erel B4X founder Staff member Licensed User Longtime User Nov 5, 2024 #4 Note that you can add the search engine to the browser directly. It is very convenient. Set a shortcut letter and then make the search directly. I use it all the time.
Note that you can add the search engine to the browser directly. It is very convenient. Set a shortcut letter and then make the search directly. I use it all the time.
LucaMs Expert Licensed User Longtime User Nov 10, 2024 #5 What happened? P.S. The new engine doesn't like searching for the word "Singleton"
Sandman Expert Licensed User Longtime User Nov 10, 2024 #6 LucaMs said: P.S. The new engine doesn't like searching for the word "Singleton" Click to expand... I can confirm I also get these results. (Here's how I search the site from time to time, as the built-in search engine doesn't index all the subforums: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=site:b4x.com+singleton)
LucaMs said: P.S. The new engine doesn't like searching for the word "Singleton" Click to expand... I can confirm I also get these results. (Here's how I search the site from time to time, as the built-in search engine doesn't index all the subforums: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=site:b4x.com+singleton)
Erel B4X founder Staff member Licensed User Longtime User Nov 11, 2024 #7 It looks like it doesn't find any meaningful result. Note that the new index only holds posts that were created or last edited since 2015. Maybe a score threshold is needed for such cases.
It looks like it doesn't find any meaningful result. Note that the new index only holds posts that were created or last edited since 2015. Maybe a score threshold is needed for such cases.
peacemaker Expert Licensed User Longtime User Nov 11, 2024 #8 Just feedback - IMHO, search now is much better than old one.
Sandman Expert Licensed User Longtime User Nov 11, 2024 #9 Erel said: It looks like it doesn't find any meaningful result. Click to expand... Just looking at some of the results it gave for "singleton", and from what I can tell there's no connection at all to the term there. I don't mean to sound stupid, but I feel I have to ask: When ColBERT finds nothing, is it somehow still forced to produce results, so it picks random threads? (Which might explain why the chosen snippets from the posts are somewhat insane too, because there is no relevant text to use.) peacemaker said: search now is much better than old one Click to expand... FWIW, I have not seen any noticable change, in either direction.
Erel said: It looks like it doesn't find any meaningful result. Click to expand... Just looking at some of the results it gave for "singleton", and from what I can tell there's no connection at all to the term there. I don't mean to sound stupid, but I feel I have to ask: When ColBERT finds nothing, is it somehow still forced to produce results, so it picks random threads? (Which might explain why the chosen snippets from the posts are somewhat insane too, because there is no relevant text to use.) peacemaker said: search now is much better than old one Click to expand... FWIW, I have not seen any noticable change, in either direction.
aeric Expert Licensed User Longtime User Nov 11, 2024 #10 If understand correctly, LLM needed to be trained. How it is trained? Do we need to provide more searches? Do we need to master and apply some kind of "prompt" skills? It seems I am not clear how to use the search engine to produce the desired results I wanted.
If understand correctly, LLM needed to be trained. How it is trained? Do we need to provide more searches? Do we need to master and apply some kind of "prompt" skills? It seems I am not clear how to use the search engine to produce the desired results I wanted.
byz Active Member Licensed User Nov 11, 2024 #11 So far, the new search seems to understand what I want, and the search results are more accurate than before.
So far, the new search seems to understand what I want, and the search results are more accurate than before.
byz Active Member Licensed User Nov 11, 2024 #12 What is the maximum number of search terms? If I ask for a solution, will the new search give you all sorts of relevant and interesting results? If so, then I would like to call it a b4x expert.
What is the maximum number of search terms? If I ask for a solution, will the new search give you all sorts of relevant and interesting results? If so, then I would like to call it a b4x expert.
Erel B4X founder Staff member Licensed User Longtime User Nov 12, 2024 #13 Sandman said: When ColBERT finds nothing, is it somehow still forced to produce results, so it picks random threads? Click to expand... It actually finds something but the relevance is too low to be meaningful. aeric said: How it is trained? Do we need to provide more searches? Click to expand... I'm using a generic pretrained model. It is possible to fine tune it and I might experiment with it in the future. byz said: What is the maximum number of search terms? If I ask for a solution, will the new search give you all sorts of relevant and interesting results? Click to expand... The search engine isn't built as a Q/A bot, such as ChatGPT. It is a token + context based search. The "context" is the real improvement over standard search engines. The query can be up to about 250 terms. I don't know whether it will return good results with such queries. We are all learning
Sandman said: When ColBERT finds nothing, is it somehow still forced to produce results, so it picks random threads? Click to expand... It actually finds something but the relevance is too low to be meaningful. aeric said: How it is trained? Do we need to provide more searches? Click to expand... I'm using a generic pretrained model. It is possible to fine tune it and I might experiment with it in the future. byz said: What is the maximum number of search terms? If I ask for a solution, will the new search give you all sorts of relevant and interesting results? Click to expand... The search engine isn't built as a Q/A bot, such as ChatGPT. It is a token + context based search. The "context" is the real improvement over standard search engines. The query can be up to about 250 terms. I don't know whether it will return good results with such queries. We are all learning
Erel B4X founder Staff member Licensed User Longtime User Nov 19, 2024 #14 The "similar threads" feature at the bottom of most threads is now powered by ColBERT. This feature helps with discovery of related content.
The "similar threads" feature at the bottom of most threads is now powered by ColBERT. This feature helps with discovery of related content.
Sandman Expert Licensed User Longtime User Nov 19, 2024 #15 I'm not sure if this is something being worked on, I just wanted to highlight that Colbert still produce somewhat anemic results for some queries. Search Results www.b4x.com With that said, I saw no problem using the old search engine and would prefer if not too much time is being spent on the new search engine.
I'm not sure if this is something being worked on, I just wanted to highlight that Colbert still produce somewhat anemic results for some queries. Search Results www.b4x.com With that said, I saw no problem using the old search engine and would prefer if not too much time is being spent on the new search engine.
Erel B4X founder Staff member Licensed User Longtime User Nov 19, 2024 #16 Sandman said: I'm not sure if this is something being worked on, I just wanted to highlight that Colbert still produce somewhat anemic results for some queries. Click to expand... This happens when there are no valid results. The search engine currently doesn't index this subforum so there are no relevant results. I will check the thresholds at some point. Sandman said: would prefer if not too much time is being spent on the new search engine Click to expand... 1. I'm pretty confident that the new search engine is better than the old one and this by itself is very important. 2. I hope that in the future I will be able to find more fruitful usages for LLMs / AI assistants in the context of B4X. This is the first step.
Sandman said: I'm not sure if this is something being worked on, I just wanted to highlight that Colbert still produce somewhat anemic results for some queries. Click to expand... This happens when there are no valid results. The search engine currently doesn't index this subforum so there are no relevant results. I will check the thresholds at some point. Sandman said: would prefer if not too much time is being spent on the new search engine Click to expand... 1. I'm pretty confident that the new search engine is better than the old one and this by itself is very important. 2. I hope that in the future I will be able to find more fruitful usages for LLMs / AI assistants in the context of B4X. This is the first step.
Sandman Expert Licensed User Longtime User Nov 19, 2024 #17 Erel said: 1. I'm pretty confident that the new search engine is better than the old one and this by itself is very important. Click to expand... I will trust your judgment here. As a single data point, I will again say that I have not detected any noticable change. (Speaking as a fairly heavy user of the forum and the search.) Erel said: 2. I hope that in the future I will be able to find more fruitful usages for LLMs / AI assistants in the context of B4X. This is the first step. Click to expand... Conceptually I have absolutely no problem with this type of research. My issue is that other things will not move forward while you focus on LLM/AI. If you had a team of 2-3 people, I would even encourage you to dedicate a person now and then to projects like this. But that's not where we are, and judging by previous discussions, that's not where you want B4X to be. No need to repeat that discussion again. The bottom line is that you're effectively the only developer for B4X, and if you spend time on LLM/AI, you're not spending time on posted wishes, or other things that have a direct and huge impact for your users and customers.
Erel said: 1. I'm pretty confident that the new search engine is better than the old one and this by itself is very important. Click to expand... I will trust your judgment here. As a single data point, I will again say that I have not detected any noticable change. (Speaking as a fairly heavy user of the forum and the search.) Erel said: 2. I hope that in the future I will be able to find more fruitful usages for LLMs / AI assistants in the context of B4X. This is the first step. Click to expand... Conceptually I have absolutely no problem with this type of research. My issue is that other things will not move forward while you focus on LLM/AI. If you had a team of 2-3 people, I would even encourage you to dedicate a person now and then to projects like this. But that's not where we are, and judging by previous discussions, that's not where you want B4X to be. No need to repeat that discussion again. The bottom line is that you're effectively the only developer for B4X, and if you spend time on LLM/AI, you're not spending time on posted wishes, or other things that have a direct and huge impact for your users and customers.
byz Active Member Licensed User Nov 19, 2024 #18 I think the progress Erel has made in LLM/AI will ultimately benefit the B4X community. include but not limited to: Language development, IDE optimization, use of programming assistants, etc. It will also reduce his workload.
I think the progress Erel has made in LLM/AI will ultimately benefit the B4X community. include but not limited to: Language development, IDE optimization, use of programming assistants, etc. It will also reduce his workload.
josejad Expert Licensed User Longtime User Nov 19, 2024 #19 byz said: Erel has made in LLM/AI will ultimately benefit the B4X community Click to expand... Finally, Erel's LLM/AI becomes self-aware at 02:14 am Eastern Time after its activation on November 5, 2024 and launches nuclear missiles against other development platforms who, in a panic, tried to disconnect it.
byz said: Erel has made in LLM/AI will ultimately benefit the B4X community Click to expand... Finally, Erel's LLM/AI becomes self-aware at 02:14 am Eastern Time after its activation on November 5, 2024 and launches nuclear missiles against other development platforms who, in a panic, tried to disconnect it.
peacemaker Expert Licensed User Longtime User Nov 26, 2024 #20 WAIT ! Maybe is this ColBERT the killer of "create new thread" rule ?
