udg Expert Licensed User Longtime User Nov 2, 2020 #1 Hi all, you know that I'm not a fan of Windows so I'm surely biased. Yesterday I tried the update to Windows 10 versione 20H2 and it failed two o three times (I lost count by all those restarts..) Today it completed successfully but the following is still not working after tens of attempts (and recipes found on the Internet): - date/time not showing usual calendar when clicked - notification panel doesn't show itself when its icon it's clicked - Start button when clicked leads to a crirical error and permits only a disconnect Two days to update an OS that constantly tries to connect to the Internet to send information to somewhere? And it is still not working properly? I would say that enough is enough. I had previous (years ago) experience with Ubuntu and CentOS7, but a friend suggested Mint. What do you think? Obviously the general idea is to install Linux as the sole OS on the notebook and have a VM (Virtualbox?) dedicated to Windows just for B4x products. I read that Wine seems to work nice these days for B4x, but a plain Windows VM will be probably easier as a first step. If you want to share your experience or have any wise hints, I'll be grateful. udg
Hi all, you know that I'm not a fan of Windows so I'm surely biased. Yesterday I tried the update to Windows 10 versione 20H2 and it failed two o three times (I lost count by all those restarts..) Today it completed successfully but the following is still not working after tens of attempts (and recipes found on the Internet): - date/time not showing usual calendar when clicked - notification panel doesn't show itself when its icon it's clicked - Start button when clicked leads to a crirical error and permits only a disconnect Two days to update an OS that constantly tries to connect to the Internet to send information to somewhere? And it is still not working properly? I would say that enough is enough. I had previous (years ago) experience with Ubuntu and CentOS7, but a friend suggested Mint. What do you think? Obviously the general idea is to install Linux as the sole OS on the notebook and have a VM (Virtualbox?) dedicated to Windows just for B4x products. I read that Wine seems to work nice these days for B4x, but a plain Windows VM will be probably easier as a first step. If you want to share your experience or have any wise hints, I'll be grateful. udg
stevel05 Expert Licensed User Longtime User Nov 2, 2020 #2 I can't leave windows as I use too many programs that only run on windows. That said, I have not had the bad experiences that some seem to have had. Yes a few bugs that have caused an issue, but generally it's not been a problem for me.
I can't leave windows as I use too many programs that only run on windows. That said, I have not had the bad experiences that some seem to have had. Yes a few bugs that have caused an issue, but generally it's not been a problem for me.
Sandman Expert Licensed User Longtime User Nov 2, 2020 #3 udg said: a friend suggested Mint. What do you think? Click to expand... I tried Mint a couple of years ago. Nice and polished, but their upgrade policy made me furious. They consider it normal and standard to do a full reinstall for each major version. Totally unacceptable for me so I switched to Debian Stable instead. Been happy every since. (Though I should say that lots and lots of people love Ubuntu also. Which, by the way, is based on Debian.)
udg said: a friend suggested Mint. What do you think? Click to expand... I tried Mint a couple of years ago. Nice and polished, but their upgrade policy made me furious. They consider it normal and standard to do a full reinstall for each major version. Totally unacceptable for me so I switched to Debian Stable instead. Been happy every since. (Though I should say that lots and lots of people love Ubuntu also. Which, by the way, is based on Debian.)
Sandman Expert Licensed User Longtime User Nov 2, 2020 #4 By the way, I use Windows 10 LTSC for B4X. Best Windows version I ever tried. Not enough for me to switch from Linux, though. When did this happen??? I'm offline for a couple of days and this happens, the same thing happened a few months ago then the whole forum style was updated when I took a few days off. I like it, I like it a lot Erel, it's a change for the better :) www.b4x.com
By the way, I use Windows 10 LTSC for B4X. Best Windows version I ever tried. Not enough for me to switch from Linux, though. When did this happen??? I'm offline for a couple of days and this happens, the same thing happened a few months ago then the whole forum style was updated when I took a few days off. I like it, I like it a lot Erel, it's a change for the better :) www.b4x.com
LucaMs Expert Licensed User Longtime User Nov 3, 2020 #5 I've never fiddled with operating systems on VMs but this thing looks so much like Android emulators, which you can never trust and crash every half second. Also, as @stevel05 already mentioned, you should replace a lot of software that only runs on Windows. I don't think you would find many customers who have systems like Mint (never heard of) or others. I have a PC with Win7 for 11 years, never a problem; if the latest Windows 10 updates had bugs it would be more than normal, all SWs have bugs, let alone something enormously complex like a S.O. The important thing is that they are fixed "quickly".
I've never fiddled with operating systems on VMs but this thing looks so much like Android emulators, which you can never trust and crash every half second. Also, as @stevel05 already mentioned, you should replace a lot of software that only runs on Windows. I don't think you would find many customers who have systems like Mint (never heard of) or others. I have a PC with Win7 for 11 years, never a problem; if the latest Windows 10 updates had bugs it would be more than normal, all SWs have bugs, let alone something enormously complex like a S.O. The important thing is that they are fixed "quickly".
stevel05 Expert Licensed User Longtime User Nov 3, 2020 #6 I have dabbled with Debian, Suse, Mint and Puppy Linux and have Ubuntu installed on an old laptop. The problem is, that when i need to fix something I know windows so much better it takes a fraction of the time. I will probably play with Windows Subsystem for Linux (WSL) when I know it's stable and get the time.
I have dabbled with Debian, Suse, Mint and Puppy Linux and have Ubuntu installed on an old laptop. The problem is, that when i need to fix something I know windows so much better it takes a fraction of the time. I will probably play with Windows Subsystem for Linux (WSL) when I know it's stable and get the time.
EnriqueGonzalez Expert Licensed User Longtime User Nov 3, 2020 #7 Hi! i am a long linux user. There are many flavors of linux but if this is your first approach i suggest to stick with Ubuntu derivatives. Some of the best are: popOS: https://pop.system76.com/ ZorinOS: https://zorinos.com/ and mint that you already know. ZorinOS and Mint with Cinnamon are beginners friendly, PopOS was designed for developers and gamers so it may require some adjustments on the way you work. as i explained here: B4J IDE runs on Linux :) I don't know if this is old news to people here, but the B4J IDE (including the designer) runs on Ubuntu 20.4 with the latest Crossover (V20). Crossover even has B4J as a known app, so the install is relatively painless. But - and there's always a but - when I try to run a simple program B4J... www.b4x.com Only B4J works with Linux IF you use crossover. For VM you can work with B4A but you will not have access to usb debugging (tried it and failed, may be someone smarter than me can do it) Leaving windows is never easy but you have to do it one step at a time. If you decide for double booting the only thing that will happen is that you will work on windows but with less space because half of your drive is used by linux. BTW linux can run in a 25 GB so dont bother giving it too much if you are only testing.
Hi! i am a long linux user. There are many flavors of linux but if this is your first approach i suggest to stick with Ubuntu derivatives. Some of the best are: popOS: https://pop.system76.com/ ZorinOS: https://zorinos.com/ and mint that you already know. ZorinOS and Mint with Cinnamon are beginners friendly, PopOS was designed for developers and gamers so it may require some adjustments on the way you work. as i explained here: B4J IDE runs on Linux :) I don't know if this is old news to people here, but the B4J IDE (including the designer) runs on Ubuntu 20.4 with the latest Crossover (V20). Crossover even has B4J as a known app, so the install is relatively painless. But - and there's always a but - when I try to run a simple program B4J... www.b4x.com Only B4J works with Linux IF you use crossover. For VM you can work with B4A but you will not have access to usb debugging (tried it and failed, may be someone smarter than me can do it) Leaving windows is never easy but you have to do it one step at a time. If you decide for double booting the only thing that will happen is that you will work on windows but with less space because half of your drive is used by linux. BTW linux can run in a 25 GB so dont bother giving it too much if you are only testing.
EnriqueGonzalez Expert Licensed User Longtime User Nov 3, 2020 #8 In the case of software that only run on windows this goes smaller everyday, people are migrating to their phones and to the web. i dont like a lot of software that comes with linux for example libreOffice so i bought https://www.softmaker.com/es/ Steam and Proton are amazing, you can run Witcher 3 without any performance penalty. GitHub - ValveSoftware/Proton: Compatibility tool for Steam Play based on Wine and additional components Compatibility tool for Steam Play based on Wine and additional components - ValveSoftware/Proton github.com by the way Proton was a collab between Crossover and Steam and it is simply amazing this is why we can now run B4J actually. some videos of LTT:
In the case of software that only run on windows this goes smaller everyday, people are migrating to their phones and to the web. i dont like a lot of software that comes with linux for example libreOffice so i bought https://www.softmaker.com/es/ Steam and Proton are amazing, you can run Witcher 3 without any performance penalty. GitHub - ValveSoftware/Proton: Compatibility tool for Steam Play based on Wine and additional components Compatibility tool for Steam Play based on Wine and additional components - ValveSoftware/Proton github.com by the way Proton was a collab between Crossover and Steam and it is simply amazing this is why we can now run B4J actually. some videos of LTT:
udg Expert Licensed User Longtime User Nov 3, 2020 #9 Thanks all. Luckily I use very few programs under Windows and it would be easy to find their counterparts under Linux. I'm aware that it will not be a two-minutes switch and plan B was to have a second notebook with Linux for daily chores and current NB (with its problems) for B4x development, hoping one day to port everything on the first one. BTW, most of my work is cloud-based so a good browser accounts for at least 70% of my working time.
Thanks all. Luckily I use very few programs under Windows and it would be easy to find their counterparts under Linux. I'm aware that it will not be a two-minutes switch and plan B was to have a second notebook with Linux for daily chores and current NB (with its problems) for B4x development, hoping one day to port everything on the first one. BTW, most of my work is cloud-based so a good browser accounts for at least 70% of my working time.
stevel05 Expert Licensed User Longtime User Nov 3, 2020 #10 udg said: BTW, most of my work is cloud-based so a good browser accounts for at least 70% of my working time Click to expand... Then it may be worth considering a Chromebook.
udg said: BTW, most of my work is cloud-based so a good browser accounts for at least 70% of my working time Click to expand... Then it may be worth considering a Chromebook.
Sandman Expert Licensed User Longtime User Nov 3, 2020 #11 stevel05 said: Then it may be worth considering a Chromebook Click to expand... True. Especially one able to also run Linux and Android apps.
stevel05 said: Then it may be worth considering a Chromebook Click to expand... True. Especially one able to also run Linux and Android apps.
udg Expert Licensed User Longtime User Nov 3, 2020 #12 True. Especially one able to also run Linux and Android apps. Click to expand... Any specific model to be recommended? I like the idea to fish in the Linux pool as long as the Android one (my Andoid tablet is 8yo now..) Lockdown or not, XMas starts to sound great this year
True. Especially one able to also run Linux and Android apps. Click to expand... Any specific model to be recommended? I like the idea to fish in the Linux pool as long as the Android one (my Andoid tablet is 8yo now..) Lockdown or not, XMas starts to sound great this year
Sandman Expert Licensed User Longtime User Nov 3, 2020 #13 udg said: Any specific model to be recommended? Click to expand... I have an older Asus that can run Android apps (so great!), but it's not able to run Linux apps. Sorry to say I haven't really investigated the Linux aspect, but it seems to be a popular topic, so here you should be able to find something worth reading. I'm sure many users here would appreciate if you reported back to the thread what model you bought, if you decide to go that route. https://duckduckgo.com/?q=chromebook+best+linux
udg said: Any specific model to be recommended? Click to expand... I have an older Asus that can run Android apps (so great!), but it's not able to run Linux apps. Sorry to say I haven't really investigated the Linux aspect, but it seems to be a popular topic, so here you should be able to find something worth reading. I'm sure many users here would appreciate if you reported back to the thread what model you bought, if you decide to go that route. https://duckduckgo.com/?q=chromebook+best+linux
udg Expert Licensed User Longtime User Nov 3, 2020 #14 I'm gonna write to Santa and let him choose Just joking. Surely, if I buy one of those device I'll report back here.
I'm gonna write to Santa and let him choose Just joking. Surely, if I buy one of those device I'll report back here.
KMatle Expert Licensed User Longtime User Nov 3, 2020 #15 Windows 10 is actually quite good (stable & fast even on older hardware). Since the last updates Microsoft had some issues.
Windows 10 is actually quite good (stable & fast even on older hardware). Since the last updates Microsoft had some issues.
Lahksman Active Member Licensed User Longtime User Nov 3, 2020 #16 @Sandman : Seeing you have some experience with chromebook, does every android app work on chromebook and is it stable? A customer of mine just asked me if our apps could work on a chromebook and our development division never tested it. And with the current situation in Belgium (lockdown) our offices are closed, so they haven't got any testing equipment at this time.
@Sandman : Seeing you have some experience with chromebook, does every android app work on chromebook and is it stable? A customer of mine just asked me if our apps could work on a chromebook and our development division never tested it. And with the current situation in Belgium (lockdown) our offices are closed, so they haven't got any testing equipment at this time.
stevel05 Expert Licensed User Longtime User Nov 3, 2020 #17 I have a Lenovo C330, it's not the latest but runs well and battery life is amazing. At least 10 hours on a full charge for simple browsing etc. I have installed Linux but haven't really tied it yet. The thing I didn't know before I bought a Chromebook is that they have an End of life date, at which point support and upgrades stop. I think it is usually 5/6 years, which is obviously from new but something to consider if buying second hand.
I have a Lenovo C330, it's not the latest but runs well and battery life is amazing. At least 10 hours on a full charge for simple browsing etc. I have installed Linux but haven't really tied it yet. The thing I didn't know before I bought a Chromebook is that they have an End of life date, at which point support and upgrades stop. I think it is usually 5/6 years, which is obviously from new but something to consider if buying second hand.
Sandman Expert Licensed User Longtime User Nov 3, 2020 #18 Lahksman said: does every android app work on chromebook and is it stable? Click to expand... Sorry, I have yet to try every android app. ;-) Seriously though, as far as I can remember all have worked fine. I have some vague memory of some very old app that wasn't able to go fullscreen and instead was a single window. Not a common thing though. And I imagine that some apps just don't show up in the Play Store when I access it from the Chromebook, due to it not having a SIM-card or some other requirement that is specified for the app. As for the stability: Rock solid, I'd say. Lahksman said: A customer of mine just asked me if our apps could work on a chromebook Click to expand... Assuming your app is somewhat modern and doesn't require hardware not available in the Chromebook, I'd take my chances and say that it's likely to work. But you might realize that you need to adjust some layouts, because of all the extra screen real-estate.
Lahksman said: does every android app work on chromebook and is it stable? Click to expand... Sorry, I have yet to try every android app. ;-) Seriously though, as far as I can remember all have worked fine. I have some vague memory of some very old app that wasn't able to go fullscreen and instead was a single window. Not a common thing though. And I imagine that some apps just don't show up in the Play Store when I access it from the Chromebook, due to it not having a SIM-card or some other requirement that is specified for the app. As for the stability: Rock solid, I'd say. Lahksman said: A customer of mine just asked me if our apps could work on a chromebook Click to expand... Assuming your app is somewhat modern and doesn't require hardware not available in the Chromebook, I'd take my chances and say that it's likely to work. But you might realize that you need to adjust some layouts, because of all the extra screen real-estate.
stevel05 Expert Licensed User Longtime User Nov 3, 2020 #19 Sandman said: adjust some layouts, because of all the extra screen real-estate. Click to expand... I'd say that is the key, I've seen a couple of apps that just show in a vertical oblong in the middle of the screen. Not the best user experience.
Sandman said: adjust some layouts, because of all the extra screen real-estate. Click to expand... I'd say that is the key, I've seen a couple of apps that just show in a vertical oblong in the middle of the screen. Not the best user experience.
Lahksman Active Member Licensed User Longtime User Nov 3, 2020 #20 Sandman said: Sorry, I have yet to try every android app. ;-) Click to expand... Now that's a dissapointment Assuming your app is somewhat modern ... But you might realize that you need to adjust some layouts Click to expand... It's not my app so I don't know if there are some requirements and I can't change the layouts. Thanks for the feedback though, at least I have some more info so I can advise my client.
Sandman said: Sorry, I have yet to try every android app. ;-) Click to expand... Now that's a dissapointment Assuming your app is somewhat modern ... But you might realize that you need to adjust some layouts Click to expand... It's not my app so I don't know if there are some requirements and I can't change the layouts. Thanks for the feedback though, at least I have some more info so I can advise my client.
