just for discussion: Why B4X is not famous enough

Winni said:

Because Python is today what BASIC was back in the 1970s/1980s: An easy language to learn that does it ALL ("batteries included"), and it is available on ALL computing platforms - free of charge. Heck, there are even ready made modules available that can communicate to the plant sensors that we use in the greenhouses of our research institute. The Python ecosystem just kills it - there really is a module for EVERYTHING. It's near to impossible to compete with such a vast ecosystem of FREE third party libraries.

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Can you write Android and iOS apps with Python? Are you referring to Kivy? You can't compare it to B4X.

B4X will be famous soon. Give it some time.

Steps taken by Erel are in right direction.

1. Making B4A free is going to help millions of developer to try it and make some money from it.
2. Already Erel and Klaus have made cross platform examples which gives B4X an edge.
3. Erel has made .b4xlib library which contains the source codes, so no worry of dependency on the creator.
4. The selflessness of members here, I salute, makes developing in B4X a breeze for any new member.
5. This Forum of gold mines with relevant answers on nearly everything on Android and Java.

Well, we all need to drop this negative perspective and think and say, "What we can do to power B4X ?"

Come on guys we can do it !

Regards,

Anand

AnandGupta said:

Come on guys we can do it !

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That's the right spirit

A little point of interest re BASIC.
I taught myself BASIB before VB existed. I learned from the Commodore 64.
I went to work in a bank in Saudi Arabia in 1995 and found that their main banking system, which ran on the mainframe, was built in ...... can you guess - BASIC. I kid you not. A proper bank that ran on BASIC.

That has changed now - that's why I was there, but it was BASIC before I helped them go across to COBOL

Erel said:

The real challenge is how to increase the exposure of new developers to B4X. I need your help here. If you like B4X encourage other developers to give it a try.
There is a large and active community here and this community is the key for further growth.

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Absolutely! Word of mouth is a very powerful and positive way of growing a product. I'm doing exactly this in a Raspberry Pi group I frequent on Facebook and I already have quite a number of people trying out B4J and loving it. Literally this morning I've chatted with a member about his desire to control his Pi via an app so I have of course pointed him to B4A and he's already reading and starting to get to grips with this awesome language.

He's a Mac user though so either needs to dual boot or use VirtualBox or similar which of course adds a layer of complexity in getting started. Although I don't use Mac's I'd love to see the environment ported over.

(my 2 cents)

If most of us agree that it is a great solution for a broad range of needs (not all, I'm a fully convinced B4X-er, but realistic), what's lacking? As I see it, one of the problems is visibility.

And one of the reasons, is that there aren't enough reference solutions out there (I mean, not only inside but also outside of this forum) so that developers googling for code snippets or complete solutions that they need or are just curious, find B4X in every google search so that they see that it is anywhere (Sofware ✌). This way, they'll come on their own.

Hi everyone.

How to make B4X famous ? maybe a way...

Every language has its own interest, and B4A is for me easy, even if I have sometime problems with, but this language is rather intutive, clear and efficient, not like java I don't like.

To be famous, out of the booklets and the forums which are nice :

Why not developing a site in which poeple can find apps made with B4X, not necessary for sell, but for showing what is possible.
Look, I can speak about a car (a Mc Laren F1 of 1993 - 1000 HorsesPower), but if you can't see it, can't appreciate its all qualities, what can you think about it. In a few days, you'll forget it.
Our memory is powerfull visually, that's why the pictures are so impressive for us.
So, like a gallery, if poeple can see what is possible to realize with B4A, show many apps and their pages, their functions to make them appreciated.

Here is one possible point in which everyne one can bring his capabilities.

I forgot to mention a point against it, and that is very difficult to solve, the IDE is only for windows.
I'm a gnu/linux user since it exists, and I use virtualbox to run a windows to run B4X.
It would be a very important point if the IDE was multiplatform.

I’m afraid, Winni nailed it from a professional-developer-point-of-view.

But I believe, the future of b4x lies in those users, who did not took IT-related tracks at school. There is a big movement called citizen development. According to Gartner, who are recognized as having coined the phrase, “A citizen developer is a user who creates new business applications for consumption by others using development and runtime environments sanctioned by corporate IT.” And that has to be simple. Can somebody counterprove the claim, that Basic is still the most suitable programming language for beginners? I think, python is just runner up in this particular competition.

And that is the chance for B4X. And yes, Python is in any aspect the biggest obstacle to cope with. But as far as I know, there is at the moment no Python-IDE which so tightly linked with a Point-And-Click-Visual Designer like B4X. This visual approach made VB6 so big (despite the simple syntax of course) and makes MS Access in a similar way still a relevant thing in corporate environments. Both tools where and are used also by people with no formal programming background but with surprising good results. They build small to midsize databases, connect things, automate processes… That is IMHO the target group for B4X. The main advantage of B4X for citizen developers is, that they can reuse their skills, if they come from VBA and if they don’t, they are able to grasp the tool quite fast. And they will get a tool, that is powerful as hell.

There are two big challenges like others said before:

• Give those citizen developers the information they need. Write tutorials tailored to them. Make the know-how much more accessable than now. What is really needed are tutorials that show the full circle how to build business apps. You, as members of this community, are encouraged to contribute to this huge task.
• Convince the corporate IT, to sanction B4X as a environment for citizen developers. Java as underlying platform might be a big argument here. And everybody with an IT-related degree can review the Basic-Code and that reduces the cost of program maintenance. Of course, there is lot of Lobbying to do.

I am a single application developer at a research institute, most of the applications I create as a tool for solving research jobs, I've been developing applications with Pascal since 1994 , then Microsoft Visual Studio since 2000 and now B4X, I find B4X easy for newcomers to access, install and configure simply, fast, does not require a computer with high configuration
The future and orientation of B4X are very good, now just need stability and how developers can put their trust in B4X, they need the trust that B4X will accompany and support them in the long term.

Well even if it is B4?? it is still look like BASIC to the sophisticated world of java, C++ or other complicated language. I for myself i program in 12 different languages, and if there is one thing that are sure, when i come back to BASIC B for Basic, i came back to a well known language wich i feel comfortable going back to.
I programs in a structured programming language (BASIC) since i thin it existed on very old mainframe, and been programming in basic for over 40years. I learn more languages along the way, but still always go back to Basic, wich i known so well. The only reason it is not known as it should be is the word BASIC that sophisticated programmer kind a feel (if too much programmers learn BASIC or B4X, i simply loose my job as a java programmer or android studio or other, so the only this shure is not to promote the BASIC as they said it is a kid programming language).
But when i discovered the B4A i switch to this language immediately, leaving the java and other programming language, and now that we have the B4J, B4A, and B4I, i see no reason to go back to complicated syntax language. I developed some sophisticated app for governemental application with B4? and i put an app on Android Store, and i currently in phase of developping 4 more apps with this language wich is simple, maybe too simple, but still i'm not switching back, and if this platform could be available on Apple IOS that would solve a lot of problem, as we could program on the 2 most operating system Windows and IOS, but i don't think that will be for tomorrow.

Anyway keep going developping that platform on all B4X and if someone says (Ohhh BASIC, well it a kid language) from the sophisticated world of programmers, show them app that you develop in a quater of time required to build an app with Java, and they will be jalous but will not show it, cause they might loose their job if too many peoples go to BASIC or B4X, and maybe they will start to keep a look at that fabulous programming language for Android , IOS and Windows.

This is my opinion, Keep developping libs and more stuff for B4X as it is the best so far..

B4A makes everything easier not because the language is Basic like but because it simplifies all the work that would be needed using tools such as Android Studio.

Language itself has a very relative importance.

Reading through the comments of everyone I found that: the name B4X is not a big deal, the problem here is that professional developers will not want to be left in the middle, assuming Erel retires and Erel is no longer working, what happens to B4X and to B4X-based developers, who will be Erel's successor? Therefore, it will be very good for the B4X-based development community, if B4X is bought and maintained by Big4 giants (Microsoft, Google, Apple, FB, even Huawei of China).
Erel always try your best, you have done things that mean a lot to this world

NGUYEN TUAN ANH said:

Reading through the comments of everyone I found that: the name B4X is not a big deal, the problem here is that professional developers will not want to be left in the middle, assuming Erel retires and Erel is no longer working, what happens to B4X and to B4X-based developers, who will be Erel's successor? Therefore, it will be very good for the B4X-based development community, if B4X is bought and maintained by Big4 giants (Microsoft, Google, Apple, FB, even Huawei of China).
Erel always try your best, you have done things that mean a lot to this world

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B4A, B4J, B4i, B4R are Anywhere Software's products. This company is made up of about 500 employees, although they always appear with the name "Erel".

LucaMs said:

B4A, B4J, B4i, B4R are Anywhere Software's products. This company is made up of about 500 employees, although they always appear with the name "Erel".

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Really, sorry because i don't know

NGUYEN TUAN ANH said:

Really, sorry because i don't know

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I was "kidding"

Polaris said:

I suppose the word 'basic' tends to put some developers off, for me it was the opposite . I was struggling with Java and Android Studio, and one day i come across this code on GitHub and the author said it was written in Basic for Android , And I was like " What ? you can code an Android App in Basic? , since I knew BASIC this really appealed to me,,
so i looked it up immediately. Of course it wasn't really basic but looking at the structure of some sample code, I liked the way it was divided into simple sub routines with straightforward syntax , and when i figured out that it was quite powerful i dove straight into it . Funny thing is i spent a lot of time googling for an alternative to Android Studio, and never found anything , it was a fluke encounter on GitHub . So maybe B4A should be marketed as what it was for me :

------An easy to learn, yet powerful, alternative to Android Studio----

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If I remember correctly, a few years ago I was also looking for alternative to VB6 supporting 64bit and Android Studio. I tried Gambas for Linux and Xojo (Real Basic) to build MacOS app but both still are not going well from what I see till today. I am happy I made the right decision to purchase license for B4A and not Xojo. That time was my very first time using credit card to buy things online and I have little money to spend especially foreign currency where US dollar is 4x my local currency.

For me, now I find enough arguments to discuss with developers, that B4X is able to beat other languages in speed and comfort of cross platform developing. And I got used to the way, how to look for informations.

But when I started with B4A, I still remember, that I had problems to find quickly the most needed basics. I saw a huge list of libraries on the right IDE side, but I did not know, what fancy things I can do with it. Same time I started to use "PureBasic" and my start there was easier, because of a very good organized offline http-help.

The online help not always shows the relevant things. For example, "Search online" for a Map shows me lots about Google Maps, not what I am looking for (in Google: "b4x map" gives better results). The forum information is very huge, that's good, but you have to highlight the most important basic information.

Why not adding a good offline help (context help with F1) with all the basic informations about libraries and so on?
A must in the Offline Library Documentation: Core, Audio, all B4X..., Dialogs, GPS, JavaObject, jMQTT, JSON, NFC, OKHTTP + Utils, Phone, RandomAccessFile, RuntimePermissions, SQL, StringUtils, xCustumListView, XUI, XUIViews

Even, if this docs could sometimes be not 100% uptodate, it is much better than not having it, and you can always have a reference to the online doc.

I am also wondering, why B4X with all its power is not more popular. May be is need some time. Giving new tester all needed infos as easy as possible, directly in the IDE, could accelerate it. . And for those that have problems with "Basic", the name "build for everything" is really a good alternative.

manuals are so 90s. Office2003 had a huge (offline/inside) manual but what do people do when they need to know something? right, search the internet.
that's why it was replaced later with some online (barely working) version.

there are fancy 3rd party beginner's guides/manuals available as PDF and they are now mentioned on the download page aswell.
Maybe it's more interesting if it was at the top of the page so that people can have a look at it right away before they go installing or not.
Ok, there is this menu at the top right that points to documentation but it's not visible on tablets/phones as it gets hidden by the responsiveness
so you need to go through the install process before you'll see it.

This forum is top notch. I remember when I was looking in 2012 to develop on Android I had a VB6 like option and B4A in mind.
The forum of the other product was like dead meat with barely anthing on it and not recent either.
This one is some massive source of information which is quite rare to find on one spot.

In the IDEs menu Help:



You come on this page:



With direct links to show the B4X Booklets!