Other Promoting B4J - What do you think?

[Erel]

While there are many programming language available today, including free tools, there aren't many quality RAD (rapid application development) tools.
As I see it, B4J, especially after the latest update which adds an internal designer, is a good candidate to to be a very popular programming language / tool. I think of it as a modern VB6. A tool to get the job done.
It can also be a good choice for teaching programming.

How can we better promote B4J? What do you think?

 

[Erel]

This was discussed in the past. I do hope that we will have a conference at some point in the future.
For now there are no concrete plans.
It requires a lot of effort to organize a professional conference.

 

[alwaysbusy]

Sure does! Didn't read the whole post so I must have missed this proposal was already done

 

[Squiffy]

Would require some effort, but a "template" web application using ABMaterial that people could base their projects on would be good. All web apps need a login page, a way to secure pages behind roles/permissions (and a way to manage said roles & permissions), sessions, menu bars and grids to show data. Bit like a cut down Admin Theme with some common functionality built it.

That would give new (and old) people a solid leg up for a web application and I'll bet you a Bakewell Tart the word would spread. People are always looking for short cuts.

Just a thought. Probably because I'd like one

 

[Harris]

Would require some effort, but a "template" web application using ABMaterial that people could base their projects on would be good. All web apps need a login page, a way to secure pages behind roles/permissions (and a way to manage said roles & permissions), sessions, menu bars and grids to show data. Bit like a cut down Admin Theme with some common functionality built it.

This is promoting ABM - built on B4J - so I guess it applies in this thread(?).

Currently, ABM is a moving target and, as such, it would be difficult to provide a template that was always current to latest release (however not impossible - just more work).
That said, I agree, - login, roles/permissions (and a way to manage said roles & permissions), sessions, etc. should have a functional foundation from which to start. I have seen bits and pieces (and asked for such) but nothing whole as yet. This is a subject that is very important for most projects, but difficult for newbies to understand with guidance/example (how to configure and implement). If ab had more time (ie. quit his day job and could live off the avails of ABM), then this (and more) would be a reality - but - let's get real - it ain't there yet (we hope and pray).

Perhaps you could lay out this design for us? You seem to have some expertise in this regard. It would be most helpful for all.
I, for one, would contribute to a great designed framework. Even if not exact code, a document outlining "how to put it all together". That would allow us (some smart cookie) to create a code module, with supporting table structures, that works.

Thanks

 

[Harris]

Sure does! Didn't read the whole post so I must have missed this proposal was already done

Can this be accomplished on-line, over the web?
Most of us poor saps ("I resemble that remark") can't afford to travel into town - let alone half way around the world!

This would be a fantastic event - and really needs to happen - however it can happen.
Please, make it work.

 

[Squiffy]

This is promoting ABM - built on B4J - so I guess it applies in this thread(?).

I meant this as an example, purely because ABMaterial seems to be pretty well regarded 'round these parts. It could just as easily be raw html with just the required components and minimal design. Possibly a sliced up admin template like the free AdminLTE one found here.

If ab had more time...

(swap out ab for anyone's name) Tell me about it

Perhaps you could lay out this design for us? ... Even if not exact code, a document ...

I am attempting it. Not with ABMaterial as I haven't found the time to sit down and work with it yet, but using very basic html pages fed by B4J. If nothing else it might allow a generic-as-can-be back end to be constructed, likely in the form of a rest-y-ish-y API kind of way

I'll start another thread for interested parties to follow and contribute as I think I've gone a little off topic here.

 

[Harris]

I'll start another thread for interested parties to follow and contribute as I think I've gone a little off topic here

Please do. Let us get this nailed down.
I, for one, am very confused as how to set privileges upon login - since there can be many levels deep. (ie. add, edit, delete, - view a certain page at all!).
Complex subject but I am sure many here have this implemented simply and well in their designs.

ab supplied a simple demonstration - admin or regular user (admin user would expose the delete button - otherwise not). I suppose the same logic could be applied to viewing pages, but this only allows two levels of privileges.
A php product I purchased had multi-levels - but then it was php and I couldn't figure out how they did it - so many files loaded and re-direction here and there....

 

[Cableguy]

We are going well of topic I think...

"How to better promote b4j"

In the long run, a bit like Linux, b4j will have its niche and be well implemented as a win32/web RAD solution...
In the short term, i would bet in getting into all the major social media, and even professional social media like LinkedIn... The B4x community is well over 80k, if even 10k spread the word about it, millions will be "touched"

 

[JoeInvestiga]

Excuse me, I will write in Spanish...

Soy nuevo en este tipo de herramientas (tools) que ayudan a substituir a lenguajes tan confusos como Java en su programación para alguno que hemos desarrollado principalmente en Vbasic 6.0 y en otros lenguajes tan antiguos como Fortran, COBOL, etc. donde se están basados la programación estructurada que hoy le llaman por OBJETOS.
Hasta el momento B4J, para mi ha resultado sencillo en su estructuración como un un lenguaje herramienta <subterráneo> para no complicarse la vida con Java. Aún, cuando se tienen ciertas deficiencias <técnicas> para su programación sea sencilla y fácil para lograr una programación eficaz y estructurada <por objetos> donde se pueda aprovechar las subrutinas en los programas <rutinas>.
Ejemplos de deficiencias, son:
El complicado procedimiento para realizar <PAUSAS> con la utilización solo con Timer´s, y no poder sacar provecho a los FOR/DO.... DATE.TIME.NOW para este tipo de rutinas sin necesidad de usar <botones> para continuidad de la rutina pausada.
Otra deficiencia esa, el no poder establecer desde el DESIGNER una tabla para LABELS, BUTTONS, IMAGEVIEW, etc. así por lo complicado que se vuelve para manejar nombres de varibles numeradas: Var1, Var2, Var3... Varn, y no tener un comando simple para renombrar algo como esto: Var & i (donde i es el valor del número) esto ayudaría mucho a la falta de tablas en el DESIGNER y lo complicado para manejar las tablas o variables numeradas.
Hasta el momento, en lo poco que necesitado para programar en B4J y realizar mis pequeños proyectos sin adentrar demasiado (solo 1%) de la herramientas de programación que es B4J.
Estoy contento de haber encontrado esta herramienta para poder trasladar mis proyectos programados en Vbasic 6.0 a Java y próximamente a Android.
Saludos a los creadores de este sistema puente VBasic 6.0 a Java. Muchisisisimas gracias SEÑORES PROGRAMADORES.
Joeinvestiga.

 

[hsteph]

Interesting post, ...
We first need a ready-to-go and easy to use B4A+B4J open-source platform with an up-to-date professional Material Design built-in + a well presented library of samples (ie: Xamarin https://developer.xamarin.com/samples-all/)
This requires a lot of energy and $$$, ...

 

[Erel]

Material design is supported. You don't need to do anything special to use it on Android 5+ devices. You can use AppCompat library to apply the material design on older versions.

 

[giovit]

A well structured user guide and also a help file like in AutoIt script, because programmers want to try it faster and need to know where to start and the basic use of the IDE.
Then they will switch or try or start with other B4X products and they will feel more confortable. B4J must be the catapult for the other B4X productos and must pay attention to the way programmers or newbies can learn to use the IDE and Language.
The user guide must contain a sample code for each funtion, class or library if posible and an explanation of its parameters or a general purpose code sample that envolves many features at the same time.
In my opinion it is not so easy find a help in a forum if you don't know well the programming language, and the forum must be used to solve not so trivial problems, for the trivial question a user guide is the best.

Sorry about my english

 

[LucaMs]

What was the chosen strategy?

Was it useful?

 

[Erel]

The feedback from thread was useful and it is still open for more suggestions.

 

[LWGShane]

I still think the best way to promote B4X is to write B4X in B4X. (That's also the best way to show off the power of B4X.)

 

[le_toubib]

I Belleive the best way to promote b4j is to show solutions already done with b4j (with or without other b4x )
E.g : a fully functional desktop hospital system (HIS + HR ) .. in a 1000 beds hospital ... with integrated mobile notifications modules .. on a local and/or public network.

- another way is publishing basic/advanced programming concepts tutorials outside b4x community. That will take advantage of the beauty and simplicity of b4j/b4x to illustrate even the most advanced/complicated programming concepts.

 

[jmon]

a fully functional desktop hospital system (HIS + HR ) .. in a 1000 beds hospital

I'm not sure the target is that kind of applications. I can see here many developers on b4x are mostly hobby developers (Including me) programming on our spare time.

I think what sells b4x, is the "Networker's Guide to the Galaxy"! When I saw this video, I was so glad to see that I learnt something so powerful and cross-platform! I mean the real strength of B4x, is that you can actually do anything: Robots, Cross-platform applications, Servers, web-apps, Games, automation .... you name it... On top of that there are so many ways to monetize whatever you do. It's easy to develop a quick app, but can scale up to a huge app.

Even though all the above, I have tried to convince friends to move to b4x (or at least try to do some apps with B4J). They are Python, C#, .NET, PHP, WPF programmers. Strangely, they all agree b4x is amazing, but they don't want to change their programming habits, even though I managed to convince them. Can someone tell me where C# is better than B4J? Why would someone learn something only targeted at Windows?

If I was a teacher, I would definitely teach B4J at school. So bad Javafx is difficult to install on the Raspberry Pi. Because if there was an easier way, Windows + developing Raspberry Pi UI apps would be very appealing to kids and teenagers.

Also, how to promote B4J? maybe introduce B4J at JavaOne : https://www.oracle.com/javaone/index.html

 

[derez]

I have started a SW course at school for kids (13 years old) without any former background in SW. I do it by B4J since it is simple and convenient (computers are available).
This will probably lead to interest in the other b4x tools.

 

[stefanogoria]

Hi Erel, you know, I am using B4J since the beginning. I totally suspend using VB6 and other to develope my software.
I think B4J (and all B4X products) has great potential and great future.
By my opinion (I am speaking against my interest) a fee like B4A and B4I could give you money enough to develope the project.
Thanks for all.

 

[jmon]

a fee like B4A and B4I could give you money enough to develope the project

I only use B4J, but pay the B4A license to support B4J