B4x LTS (long term support)

emexes said:
I'm not so sure about that. Their current operating system, straight out of the box, can still run programs written for their operating system of a third of a century ago. Whereas Android and iOS seem to be actively forcing apps to need updating in order to run on current versions. ?
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I guess Windows desktop OS can install drivers to support new hardware. Try to run Win95 in current hardware.
Mobile OS is another beast. We don’t install hardware drivers. The new hardware rely on the new kernel that support new hardware. So it has to update frequently.
 
rabbitBUSH said:
with the exception of 16-bit
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Yeah, you might have identified a weak spot of my argument there ? I tried running DOS Lemmings on this new laptop and got:

1616807596904.png


My compiled-with-BC DOS programs still work though (at least, the text ones do - haven't got easy access to graphics ones).
 
emexes said:
Yeah, you might have identified a weak spot of my argument there ? I tried running DOS Lemmings on this new laptop and got:

View attachment 110509

My compiled-with-BC DOS programs still work though (at least, the text ones do - haven't got easy access to graphics ones).
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Install old windows inside a VirtualBox.
 
In the end everyone will die. Companies will die. Software of all kinds will die. Those doing the worrying about B4X and any other development software’s future never consider the possibility that they, themselves, will leave their customers hanging out to dry because they retire or die themselves with no one to carry their torches. Use what works for you and remind your clients that nothing is certain in life except dying.
 
I think, as long as you can install the original B4X software, without the need for an online licensing system, you are good.
If B4X isn't available anymore (worst case of course), you still can maintain your applications. Ok, for new designs, you need to look for other options.
I like company's who gives you "your" licensed copy of the ide/software, as you buy it.
Also, when you PC is crashed, you can install the software again, without problems.
Sometimes, you can buy software with an usb-licensing stick, that is also a very nice way to have the software well protected for the software developer, while you as as enduser don't need to worry the day the developer stops this product/business.
All the systems providing SaaS (Software as a service ), for me, it's more tricky, if they stop their services one day to another, then you have a problem.
Today, big companies like Microsoft offering those services, no one is thinking about Microsoft that is stopping it's activity, but think what will happen if tomorrow all SaaS services are suddenly stopped.
Microsoft is also smart, they are now introducing "power apps" in office, to create simple programs fast., until you look at the pricing level per user / month $$$.

I think B4X has a lot of potential to grow, B4J as a RAD-tool (rapid application development).
The only thing they may not loose, is the simplicity, the B4X pages is nice, but for a beginner is gets fast too complicated. (multiple way's to make/start your project)
If you are "in" the evolution of the product, it seems easy for you, but new users can find it confusing (like myself).
 
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As a programmer selling to businesses and running my own software company I can tell you. For me it is a concern. B4A/J/i - what's that - never heard of it.
For those of you bashing Microsoft about abandoning things. You are completely wrong. Sure, a few losers were dropped along the way, but what has kept MS so successful is they bend over backwards to maintain compatibility - and that is why large corps. stick with them. The have hundreds of millions invested in custom software, spreadsheets, Word docs, Power Points. And they stick with Windows because they know that as long as they do that stuff will work. If MS breaks it in a release they will fix it. Many of you may not know this but a lot of Windows code is only there to support stuff I'm sure they would really prefer to make obsolete.

In the early days of Windows programmer's found some undocumented calls they could use to make things run faster. When MS got rid of those calls they wrote special files for some of the really popular programs that relied on those files and when you ran those programs Windows ran special code that supported those programs.

Unlike Apple who every few years just says. "Tough shit, we changing the way we do things. Fix your program." I have VB programs I wrote in the 90s that I can still run in Windows. Our primary windows program runs about 500,000 lines of VBA code now. We started it in the 90s and have just continued to grow. Stuf I can do in 2 days in VBA can take me two weeks or more in B4A. And a lot of that is research - "Don't use this anymore it is obsolete.", "You can't do that because Google changed the way things work.", etc. These are problems I rarely see in Windows programs." If MS changes the way something works they change the developer environment to handle it.

I think the most annoying thing I have had to work around in 25 years was when the eliminated "stuffing" the keyboard buffer ? .
 
MrKim said:
Unlike Apple who every few years just says. "Tough shit, we changing the way we do things. Fix your program." I have VB programs I wrote in the 90s that I can still run in Windows. Our primary windows program runs about 500,000 lines of VBA code now. We started it in the 90s and have just continued to grow. Stuf I can do in 2 days in VBA can take me two weeks or more in B4A. And a lot of that is research - "Don't use this anymore it is obsolete.", "You can't do that because Google changed the way things work.", etc. These are problems I rarely see in Windows programs." If MS changes the way something works they change the developer environment to handle it.
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Totally agree.
 
... i think the problem is more android problem than b4a or b4x prob.. are some permissions and requirements changing for safety and gdpr... Hope this gonna be more stable...
 
Coldrestart said:
I think B4X has a lot of potential to grow
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I totally agree.
B4X is an excellent development platform with plenty of potential to grow and to be used by both younger and older developers alike. I only wish that the b4x.com landing page was more optimised to help with search engine results. I've spoken to Erel about this in the past.

Coldrestart said:
The only thing they may not loose, is the simplicity, the B4X pages is nice, but for a beginner is gets fast too complicated. (multiple way's to make/start your project)
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Hmm, where to begin with this statement.
B4XPages can be difficult to get your head around when you first start using it, especially when you click on to create a new project (the new projects options), but that could also be said about other IDE tools.

I personally think that Erel has worked absolute wonders considering that he (by himself) has a lot on his plate when it comes to updating the family of B4X RAD tools. Erel is constantly learning, creating, innovating and finally implementing his solutions to problems that us developers come across on a daily basis, thus we find it easier to create our apps with B4X. 'Wait For', 'Sleep' and 'B4XPages' are just three of many excellent solutions that helps us to create cross platform applications with the minimal amount of changes to our code, and this is improving with every new release of the B4X RAD tools and updates to the B4XLib libraries. Another great solution is the following that really helps to make cross platform solutions a lot easier to create.
Code: Copy 
#If B4A
...
#Else If B4i
...
#End If
To me the simplicity of using B4XPages is and can be an absolute game changer. Yes I agree that the concept can be a bit confusing at first, but once developers have created their first really simple B4XPages app (for example press a button on page 1, open and send text to a label on page 2), they will soon get to understand just how simple and powerful the B4XPages library actually is. B4XPages have multiple ways to achieve the exact same results, probably more than the default B4A, B4i and B4J project. There is always more than one way to achieve the same results, but with B4XPages it just seems to take that simplicity to yet another level.

@Coldrestart I've released a few simple to follow B4XPages tutorials that you should go through, yes there are more tutorials to come. I've actually completed 2 more B4XPages tutorials but I've not had the time to take screenshots and to create the code comments, so I've not uploaded them to the forum as yet.

In most cases using B4XPages in conjunction with B4XViews would be the preferred perfect scenario, but that's not always going to be the case. Sometime you have to improvise to achieve the results that you are looking for. In this regard B4X XUI library creators also need to be complimented, as without them, B4X XUI apps would not be as complete as they are today. Some of the third part B4XLib libraries that have been created for cross platform development are outstanding and obviously took a long time to create.

I personally believe that B4X LTS is important, but I also believe that Anywhere Software is not going anywhere anytime soon. If B4X developers keep using the B4X RAD tools as B4A, B4J and B4R are all 100% completely free to download and to use, I believe that developers should donate whatever they can whenever they can afford to do so to help with cost of R&D.

Enjoy...
 
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I never had a problem paying for the updates to the core programs and have always thought that if Anywhere Software makes B4A free, for example, them they would be within their rights to charge for access to an experts forum like this one. Some of the forum could be free for new users to get the hang of things but to get to the real wealth of knowledge, maybe that costs a bit...

I run a software company, and the issues of how to fund future development of a project comes up quite often. The question comes to me to decide what if anything should be charged, but for the commercial product we sell, those always come with a paid support agreement. I am, after all, in business to make money and I don't see any difference between my company and Erel's

Peter Simpson said:
I believe that developers should donate whatever they can whenever they can afford to do so to help with development costs.
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How does one donate to Anywhere Software? I looked through the site a bit but didn't find anything. For me, and the way I use B4X it's the cost of doing business
 
hwatech said:
How does one donate to Anywhere Software? I looked through the site a bit but didn't find anything. For me, and the way I use B4X it's the cost of doing business
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That is easy.

B4A – The simple way to develop native Android apps

B4A includes all the features needed to quickly develop any type of Android app. B4A is used by tens of thousands of developers from all over the world, including companies such as NASA, HP, IBM and others.
www.b4x.com www.b4x.com

See " Consider supporting B4A by contributing to its development: $10 $20 $40 $100 "

Regards,

Anand
 
(long term support) ?
What is counted as long term support ?
Till I am (the user) alive ! Or 20/40 years which I may run my business ?

We are worrying about what if B4X is closed down.
I have faced my development tools, which were my bread and butter, being closed down on my face.

How I survived ? Adapting to what is available.

FoxPro - My sole development tool for more than 5 years. MS bought it, expanded it from DOS to Win and then suddenly closed.
XBase++ - I use now is of year 2009, more than 10 years old, have many problems in latest market requirements, but I manage with it.
FastReport - for Xbase++ I use. The developer, sadly expired in car accident. No update. Still using the last version without any error.
TopDown - for Xbase++ I use. The developer, who was like my elder brother, sadly had cancer and is no more. He distributed source codes of his last version. I enhanced and use them with new features.
HMG - Harbour MiniGUI, My new development tool, which allows me to re-use my old DOS Clipper codes.

All these with help of peers and members in various forum, I have being able to survive with my bread and butter.

So there, we just have to adapt with our knowledge and stop worrying of something which is not in our hand.
Erel has already issued sources of core codes, to this effect and members here are helpful to continue the legacy in any way, which most have already released enhanced version of codes/samples.

Regards,

Anand
 
Thanks, the best way to hide something from me is to put it right in my face. I was on that page and still didn't see it
 
When you develop software depending on others... The risk is there... If you don't want the risk ... Work hard and make your own libraries... It happend to me with TURBO PASCAL, today you have to relie on API's of other companies(some times they close too) like JQuery is not closed but it is considered troublesome.. adaptacion is the only way to continue
 
My one wish is to (somehow) clean up this forum. Mark posts as obsolete that are obsolete and - hopefully - post a link to the more current.
I when I come here looking for how to do something I am never sure if it is the most current information.
 
Peter Simpson said:
To me the simplicity of using B4XPages is and can be an absolute game changer. Yes I agree that the concept can be a bit confusing at first, but once developers have created their first really simple B4XPages app (for example press a button on page 1, open and send text to a label on page 2), they will soon get to understand just how simple and powerful the B4XPages library actually is.
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I couldn't agree more. The more I use B4XPages, the more brilliant I realize they are.

Until I started using B4XPages, I didn't use B4J except for small non-ui apps. That's because I don't really make desktop apps anymore. I once made a living out of Delphi programming but that is years ago because nowadays I am on Linux (using B4X in VirtualBox).

So what made me work more with B4J? I keep getting happier for B4R because it is so easy to communicate between my ESP programs and B4X using AsyncStreams + B4XSerializator. Usually B4X is used as an interface to the programs written in B4R and I find it very convenient to have a desktop version when debugging the B4R programs. That's so much easier than constantly grabbing my phone when sending commands and reading sensors. And it is virtually no extra work to make a B4J version of my apps by simply pasting the controls onto the visual designer and modifying a few lines of code.

Lately I have actually turned around and now make the B4J version of the interface first. When it more or less works, I make the B4A version.

And of course, the B4J apps works in Linux.

B4XPages are simply extremely cool :cool:
 
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B4x is open source.
you could even now branch it and do your own language. i know most of us dont have the expertise to make this happen but future-wise it was the best approach possible to tackle this kind of questions.

The only part that is not Open source is the IDE but even then, you could create your language server for VSC
 
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