B4J Question B4J Version 9.90 beta coming soon, and B4J product roadmap available?

m4.s said:

will it become open-source software at some point for contributing forum

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The framework is open source: https://github.com/AnywhereSoftware
The IDE cannot be open sourced due to its dependencies.

I cannot give any time frame but B4J will continue to be updated.

Erel said:

The IDE cannot be open sourced due to its dependencies.

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I'm not sure that's entirely accurate. I can't see a problem with open sourcing everything but the dependencies that are not possible to do so. Meaning that you could use the MIT license (for instance) for all your code, and exclude the dependencies from the GitHub repo.

I imagine one of the dependencies you're referring to is the actual code editor? (I forget its name at the moment, I'm going to call it CoolCodeEditor for now.)

So in the repo you would just have the instruction "to compile this project and make this work, you need to purchase a license for CoolCodeEditor and plug it into the project like this...".

Erel said:

The framework is open source: https://github.com/AnywhereSoftware
The IDE cannot be open sourced due to its dependencies.

I cannot give any time frame but B4J will continue to be updated.

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Thanks @Erel - yet open-source projects which don't support developer contributions are essentially still closed/private and thus cannot evolve via community involvement and collaborative direction:



Tentative B4J release date targets, and even a basic roadmap with planned enhancements/improvements, would nevertheless be helpful to and appreciated by forum developers.

@Sandman - I would not expect the B4J IDE to be a candidate for full open-sourcing; as such, IMO, it should at least become another paid product offering from Anywhere Software.

My fellow B4X'ers,

There is something I learnt whilst working for the "Best4x4xFar" company some years back...

If it ain't broke - why fix it !!!

m4.s said:

@Sandman - I would not expect the B4J IDE to be a candidate for full open-sourcing; as such, IMO, it should at least become another paid product offering from Anywhere Software.

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Yep, that might very well be true. I just wanted to point out that I think Erel perhaps was wrong when he said it couldn't be open sourced.

No, I've made my opinion clear in other threads. I'm all for raising the prices (and not having any free products) if it would also would come with Erel hiring one or two more people. That would make absolute wonders for the whole product suite and make some members - me included - able to sleep better as the bus factor would be dramatically improved. But nothing happens there, so I assume that Erel simply aren't interested and is very set in his opinion that it's meant to be a one-man company. That's his decision, and I will defend his right to decide so. It doesn't mean I have to agree or appreciate it though.

BillMeyer said:

There is something I learnt whilst working for the "Best4x4xFar" company some years back...

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Those vehicles (made just 1 mile down the road from me) break down all the time, yes especially the newer ones.

Anyway, as long as B4X developer keep donating to Anywhere Software while they are using B4A, B4J and B4R, hopefully the B4X suite of RAD development tools will keep gaining new developers.

BillMeyer said:

If it ain't broke - why fix it !!!

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My HSE had issue all the time, I sold it and yes I live in Solihull

I personally take for granted that the B4J IDE development is informally abandoned (or 99% ignored if that sounds more polite ?). I fear that we will get a small update in a couple of weeks/months and then nothing for another 1+ year. It's already appalling that we haven't had a single update for more than a year.

Coding multiple small improvements for the IDE is a matter of hours, and yet, nothing. The long-term trend for B4X appears to be set. Honestly I just hope I'm wrong, maybe it's just really about perspective and priorities, not disregard or disinterest.

My primary usage of B4J is fast prototyping of cross platform apps, and, as of today, it does this job pretty well, since it's aligned with B4A and B4i.
So I wouldn't define it "informally abandoned"

Martin D. said:

I personally take for granted that the B4J IDE development is informally abandoned

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I don't think that updates at longer intervals are necessarily a bad sign. Let's look at it from the other side:
Does a software like e.g. WINDOWS become better by the fact that there are constantly any updates? No. It becomes always slower. And personally, I can still live quite well with Windows 10. Do I miss anything? No.

As for B4J, the software ist stable and mature. Do you have to have an update to have an update or a larger version number if you don't actually miss anything? Sure, some polishing here and there would be nice.

Often there are some nice "workarounds" built-in, espacially when it comes to the design:
1. The design element "button" annoys me extremely. It's really ugly and "unconfigurable". So what? I just take a label and feel fine.
2. You don't like the progressbar? Again, use simply a label and change it's width dynamically...

Because it is finally JAVA after compiling, there are some things really annoying me too. I have no clue about Java and often I have to insert a "JAVA-snippet" directly into the code to make things work. My god, as long as it works I don't have to understand it... This may be an annoying point too. But use the forum and it's friendly members. You will find a solution. Be creative!

So, one and the other programmer ist still missing some things. But in general? Is this free software really that bad? In my opinion, it is one of the most stable development environments and has the enormous advantage that the makers of B4J does not have constantly react to any senseless changes of the operating system monopolists, as for example with ANDROID...
And the speed? It is really fast compared to other development environments, you don't have to study rocket science before using it!
Wishes? Adress this to Erel. Pls. don't complain without having a problem, be a constructive member of the forum. Share the spirit (and your coding) here. We all want to improve and learn. Pls. don't understand my comment as a personal declaration of war, it is really meant in a positive way.
Tell Erel about your dislikes, only then he is able to change something.

I LOVE B4J!

From 9.80 to 9.90, usually it is just small update such as updates for internal libraries if there is.

If no version 9.90 meaning version 9 is already very stable and not require much fixes. It can be skipped.

If B4J has major update, it deserves jump to version 10.

aeric said:

From 9.80 to 9.90, usually it is just small update such as updates for internal libraries if there is.

If no version 9.90 meaning version 9 is already very stable and not require much fixes. It can be skipped.

If B4J has major update, it deserves jump to version 10.

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Oranges and Apples... i prefer... name it... B4J 2024 (going with Microsoft waves... office 2021... etc)

names and numbers not telling anything...

I think the secret of success not only Erel (he has the 99% of success) ... but this 1% making it beautiful and nice has to do with "us" - the members using it...

So why aren't creating more libs and apps, with our expertise... that will be an update - every day

ps: The b4j 9.xx - are too stable... hope next versions be the same and better !

Magma said:

Oranges and Apples... i prefer... name it... B4J 2024 (going with Microsoft waves... office 2021... etc)

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But then we only have the possibility for one update a year...
Impossible...

Seriously, perhaps the problems described here in the forum with B4J are simply not as serious as with B4A and are not caused by B4J but by "faulty" programming. Don't misunderstand, B4J is sometimes a little bitchy, a variable declaration for example must be absolutely correct etc. (which, by the way, does not only apply to B4J as a programming environment, but to the entire B4X family). And that is perhaps a good thing, since it forces "clean" programming, so to speak.

I'm completely with MAGMA, it's up to us what we make of it.

B4A... also not having problems for Android developing... but every time also Android versions/SDK changes need to "re-think" - "re-program" and go with the Rules of Google- Alphabet... but i think that need company need to change name... need to be alphaBET... because everytime we must bet... like internet-casinos... that never win... only casino wins

ps: John Taramas can't play - it is not allowed

Magma said:

Oranges and Apples... i prefer... name it... B4J 2024

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Microsoft is very bad in naming their products!
Once we have Windows 1.0, 3.x... then Win9x, Win2000, NT, ME, XP, 7, 8, then jump to 10, 11
Not consistent.
I recently read a joke.
A: Have you upgraded to Win 11?
B: Why I need so, I am already using Win 98!

Then recently MS is dropping Visual Studio for Mac!
Some people are confusing with Visual Studio 2022 and Visual Studio Code (aka VS Code)!

I prefer naming convention in Linux or Android. And it make people feel more anticipating by the Code name. Apple is also following.
Ubuntu version, e.g 23.04 means it is released in 2023 April and they use animal name such as Lunar Lobster.
Debian version, use numbering e.g Debian 12. Code name follow Toy Story characters, such as Bookworm.
Android has version like 12 code name Snow Cone.
macOS has version with code name Monterey and Ventura, I can't really remember what number are they.
MS Windows once has code name Long Horn, I was excited about it but then I have no idea why they don't use Code name anymore.

aeric said:

I have no idea why they don't use Code name anymore.

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...i think they are using... but is more for pre-release versions... (this has to do with all products general... intel, amd using also..)

aeric said:

I prefer naming convention in Linux or Android. And it make people feel more anticipating by the Code name.

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AERIC, whats your suggestion for naming the new version?
I would suggest characters from Lord Of The Rings, Starwars, Startrek or The Smurfs (Gargamel sounds exciting...)

I think I'll better leave responding to posts for today....

BlueVision said:

AERIC, whats your suggestion for naming the new version?
I would suggest characters from Lord Of The Rings, Starwars, Startrek or The Smurfs (Gargamel sounds exciting...)

I think I'll better leave responding to posts for today....

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No comments.
Whatever version released by Anywhere Software or Erel, we are happy and excited.

My personal view of B4? version updates.

I think the reason we don't get new versions of B4? as often as before is @Erel has already included most things that the IDE was originally lacking.

I am not referring to cosmetic changes, but actual useful features. For example As() , #If Java , CreateMap() etc

There are very few 'extra' things I feel are missing in the IDE, as they are a trade off between being really useful and me being too lazy to write extra code. The missing things do not justify a new version release, as they are subjective. They might be really useful to me, but 99.9% of other users would never use them.

I think Erel has the balance right between RAD and molly-coddling code writing. You don't release a new version unless there are several significant changes.

Why release a new version and have to see 'I can't see anything different' comments, it makes you feel like your time and effort has been wasted, even though behind the scenes the code is better. It's better to wait until a real need for an update comes along, then add the 'hidden' features as well.

As IDE's mature, they become reactive as opposed to proactive changes, example modules in java 9+, updates were in reaction to java changing.

Erel should be happy that the fewer updates he has to release confirms that he got it right with regard the things the IDE does and does very well.

About the bus factor...
I remember some discussions when Erel got some investor to come a bord the b4x bus.
It was the time when B4A became free, and being a licensed member of this forum no longer meanted you had bought a product license. Over the years, Erel has searched ways to ease his work load, as any of us would, and at some point he hired someone to help him... but it short lived...
Erel has mentioned that if something happens to him, our bus driver, mesures have been taken to ensure product continuity.
To me this means that he has putted his trust in someone in this forum, that has a greater understanding of the products roadmap and functionality.
Who he is, I really don't care... Erel trustes him and I have been here long enough to trust Erel.