What about guys waving money, get a solution and forgetting you ?

If someone waving money and not pay at the end...

  • Make fun of him (not bullying) - for example: asking for your money at the same thread.

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Magma

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Many times...

here at forum - some guys put a "value" or a "price" at their post/thread - waving money to solve fast their problem and never pay-back...

As Sandman said at post #4:
”A person in the forum post a request [for support, solution, code, etc] and say they are willing to pay $10 for it. If you tell them you are able to provide it to them and they approve, and you then deliver - and they don't pay, what should you do?”

First of all, I have to say that is not a forum asking for payment and is not the the right place for exchanging money... but when someone promise a donation I think must make it!

What do you think about them... ???
 
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Magma

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The community must be warned.
I agree - but from the other... We are a "community" not a "bank"....

I had 2-3 times the same thing... I didn't ask for payment/donation waving... I am still waiting because they are members decades of years with thousand posts... and they are still log-in and posting (active members)

May be forgot me...
 

Sandman

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Well, first of all I must say that there is something very strange in this forum. I very often see the word "donation" used, when it means "purchase" in the context used. (Example: "To get the source code you must donate €10 to [email protected]") It's so commonly used like this that I can't imagine it's because of the language barrier, it's just some weird forum culture. But lets set that aside for the moment and rephrase your question to this:

”A person in the forum post a request [for support, solution, code, etc] and say they are willing to pay $10 for it. If you tell them you are able to provide it to them and they approve, and you then deliver - and they don't pay, what should you do?”

I would start with the assumption that they aren't evil or scammers. Give them the benefit of a doubt, message systems fail all the time. And life does get in the way sometimes.

So I would start by asking them a couple of times via private messages or emails for payment.

1. If they pay - all is good

2. If they don't respond to messages at all: Post something like this in the thread where they requested the help:
”I have been trying to reach you several times on private messages and emails, to handle the payment for the agreed solution. There might be some problem with the forum or the email server because I never get a response. So I'll ask here in the forum instead that you pay me per our agreement. Please contact me at ... if you want to discuss something, otherwise I look forward to your payment as soon as possible. Thanks."

3. If they respond but refuse to pay: Post something like this in the thread where they requested the help:
”We have communicated several times over private messages and emails, to handle the payment for the agreed solution. In your post #1 you clearly stated what you needed, and what you were willing to pay. In my post #2 I said I could do it, to which you agreed in post #3. Two weeks later I was done and did send you the solution to the email address you provided in a private message. When I now request payment you refuse to pay me, even though I provided exactly what you requested. You have been given the chance to come up with feedback or adjustments required in my delivery, but you have not done so, so I can only assume that my delivery was in fact perfect. Even so, you refuse to pay me. The forum is hereby warned. I am willing to edit this post if you pay me as soon as possible and send payment information in a private message."

4. If they agree to pay but payment never shows up even though you have talked about it in private several times: Post something like this in the thread where they requested the help:
"You wanted X for payment $10, and I offered to help, which you agreed. On January 10th of 2022 I send you X to your email, as you instructed me in a private message. You did not pay me upon delivery, and I have since reminded you and asked for mayment three times in private. Each time you come up with explanation for why the payment is delayed. I believe I have been more than fair and understanding of your issues with regard to payment. At this point, however, I must assume that you have no intention to actually pay what you owe me. So I post this in the forum as a last try to get the payment that I am owed. The forum is hereby warned. I am willing to edit this post if you pay me as soon as possible and send payment information in a private message."

(Yeah, these example messages are bit long. Sorry, I didn't have time to write a short text.)
 
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Magma

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@Sandman As for the "rephrase" (sorry for poor english)... donation/purchase - I am not talking for the part of source code selling (donation or purchase)... this is a different thing (and I believe that real donations mean not getting something in exchange but helping/reward developer) - but for asking/custom solutions to questions threads that Waving Money (may be simple or difficult)... as you mention below...

So you think will be good to ask for the money.. and if not take them... post at the thread... hmmm why not..

but if not "refusing" to pay and changing day...month of payment again and again... what you will do ? (posting to thread again)
 

Sandman

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but if not "refusing" to pay and changing day...month of payment again and again... what you will do ?
You mean that they accept to pay but they keep delaying the payment so the money actually never shows up?
 

josejad

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stevel05

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To my mind, in English, the difference between donation and purchase is:

  • Donation: I will send you some money because I like what you do and want you to continue doing it. If it stops working then there is no obligation to fix it (although most of us would make our best attempt to do so).
  • Purchase: I will pay you for what you have done, this may not necessarily be exclusive and you may be able to share the code with the forum if the that is the agreement or you offer it for sale generally. But it does imply a warranty of some kind, and an obligation to make sure the solution works and continues to do so for a reasonable amount of time.
 

Sandman

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To my mind, in English, the difference between donation and purchase is:
Would it be possible to clarify the gift aspect of your definition?

As for me, if I purchase something, I assume I will get something in return.
If I donate something, I assume I will get nothing in return. (Other than the warm, fuzzy feeling of helping somebody else.)

So for me it's utterly strange when people request a donation (=gift) for them to provide something. To me, that is a sale, something I purchase.

Wikipedia defines a donation as "a gift for charity, humanitarian aid, or to benefit a cause".
 

stevel05

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So for me it's utterly strange when people request a donation (=gift) for them to provide something. To me, that is a sale, something I purchase.
To my mind it is just a play on words. A donation implies no warranty, but I agree, in this context it could be considered as no different to purchasing a licence to use the code. But I am not a lawyer, just my interpretation.
 

emexes

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Lol I had the opposite issue a few years back, when I was parked at McDonald's for an hour waiting to pick my son up when his shift finished, and while I was waiting an interesting problem was posted to the forum. I figured I may as well be productive and help the guy work through it. After we were done, he wanted to pay me, and I said no, it's ok, I wasn't expecting money, it was just a happy coincidence that his problem came up around the same time I was looking for something to keep me entertained. Plus we're on opposite sides of the world and in different currencies, so it's all sounding like more hassle than it's worth.

But he insisted, and I remembered that I had a old PayPal account somewhere, so:

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and he did actually pay ie not just token words. Plus I had to adjust my previous observation that the Dutch tend to be pretty tight with their money. :oops:
 

Magma

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I believe helping each other, with no hurry and no money... is something like Karma... if I help someone, after awhile he will help me or another one... I think this forum is the best and I believe it! I like sharing knowledge... taking and giving / giving and taking.... I am already feeling that my time sharing to this forum made me wiser.

But when someone waving Money...saying "if someone help me right now he will get 50$... " - and i know the answer/solution... I will go for it... and I will share my knowledge too...
 

Magma

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As for the Donation or Purchase (i think that must be different thread)...

Donation is a "Gift"... so normally don't wait to get something for the money giving... As for developers like me - saying "Donate me 10$ or more..." and i will send you the code... Yes it is better saying purchase/buy --- but from the other hand these "source-code" - not "ready-to-sell" products are source-code with ideas and may be code that never seen before (at future could be a new patent or a very very good idea)... many times - people donating 10x the "value" (selecting more) asking ... and not using that source-code.... So these guys are Donators... but guys asking more and more from a Source-Code are more -> buyers...

So... yes we need Donators and donations ---> make us feel good but we also need Buyers... to live..
Also we need contributors at the code (not only for the money)... so those who donate and get the code must contribute (like developers)... sharing their ideas with all the others had the code!

I am not here ofcourse to start a fight... why to donate or why to sell... etc..
 
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aeric

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There is also a member who private message me recently. He said he wanted to donate to me but it is not possible now due to Paypal availability in his country. So he showed his honesty.

His request is something I already thought for a while to update but I have been procrastinate. Today I modified my code and will share the updates to all. This is benefit to my project development and the community. I like donations but helping members also a great thing to do like Magma said.

Many members here volunteer to contribute to the community without asking for money. Donation is a way of showing appreciation.
Job is different! If you asked someone to do custom work, this mean it is not a volunteer work. Payment is mandatory as per agreement.

If the member made a promise, he should keep the words. Otherwise I will not help him next time. Trust is hard to build once broken.
 

tufanv

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I don't think it is fair to use the word "donation" to give access to a library, code etc.. The term must be used is "Paid Service" or "Library Cost" , "Fee" etc.. Donation must be used for voluntary actions. I paid for some custom library requests. It is normal that both sides don't trust each other. So the person I worked with made a trial library for me, I tested it and paid it in full and he gave me the full library. This is an option to stay safe for both sides.
 
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